#293 Erin Elizabeth on Breast Implants, Mold, & Candida Illness

Erin Elizabeth is an author, TV journalist, public speaker, and activist. You can download her free ebook now about going from obese to fit and keeping the weight off 5 years. She travels for speaking gigs, rallies and spends time at home with her better half of 9 years, Dr Mercola.

Today We Discuss

  • Mold illness

  • Breast implant illness

  • Eating out while staying healthy

  • and much more!

#290 Evan Brand with Robyn Openshaw on Home Toxins, EMF, & Gut Health


Today’s interview is from the Toxic Home Transformation Summit that I was part of.

Robyn Openshaw, the Green Smoothie Girl interviewed me and we had a blast!

You can register for free and get access to all the talks for 7 days. Register here.

Today We Discuss

  • Why do some people take probiotics and feel worse?

  • How do you properly test for gut issues?

  • Why does conventional medicine fail at healing gut issues?

  • Do you need to eliminate fruit to get rid of Candida overgrowth?

  • Do you need pharmaceutical drugs to successfully eradicate parasite infections?

  • EMF mitigation strategies


Robyn: Hey everyone, it’s Robyn Openshaw, and welcome back to Vibe. And I have someone I’m going to interview today. I know I always say that I’m excited about it, but I’m really excited about this because I’ve been trying for a while to get Evan Brand on the show. He’s super busy, I’ve never done a podcast episode this early — people shouldn’t even have to get out of bed this early — but it’s what he had available.

What’s exciting and interesting is he’ll actually get on the phone with you for free for 15 minutes. He’s a longtime podcaster. If you’ve been podcasting since 2012 (I always say I’m a grandma in the blogging space because I’ve been doing it for 11 years) then he’s a grandpa in the podcasting space, even though he’s really young.

He’s actually really young; he has a two-year-old. But, he’s been podcasting since 2012 and has had 7 million downloads of his show. But the thing I like about Evan is that, like many of the people we interview here, he got well and then took that knowledge base that he gained and dug even deeper, and now he helps others.

He’s a certified functional medicine practitioner — a nutritional therapist — in addition to being an author and a podcast host. He really jams out on working with people who have chronic fatigue, or obesity, or depression. And he came by his knowledge because he has or had IBS and depression issues himself.

If you work with him, he’s going to use at-home lab testing and customized supplements to help you figure out what’s wrong, and then get to the bottom of it and get well. Welcome to the show Evan Brand.

Evan: Robyn, thanks for having me.

Robyn: We’re doing this interview, and we’re using some parts of it on the Vibe podcast. But the original intent was to talk to you about how you got well, your story; and specifically talking about pathogens, talking about parasites, and bacterial infections.

People who do our 26-day detox often will get on a pathogen protocol. We really like systemic formulas: a pathogen protocol or their parasite protocol. But talk to me a little bit about how you became an expert at this: what’s your own personal story that led you to so much knowledge about this?

Evan: Sure. Well, the more and more interviews I do, the further back the timeline goes. I used to say that it was when I was in business school that I realized I was depressed. But the more I do interviews and I think back, I realize I was depressed since I was a kid.

I remember seeing other kids that were just so happy, they seemed so bubbly, so vibrant. And I wasn’t like that. Something would go good in my life and I wouldn’t get the same pleasure that someone else would get from it. It was almost like I had this governor or some sort of a cap on my neurotransmitters even as a kid.

And it makes sense, my parents divorced when I was three years old. And I think that was probably a big part of it because I’ve spoken with Dr Dietrich Klinghardt and he told me that a lot of kids have traumas before they can even remember. You’re talking one-year-olds, two-year-olds, three-year-olds. They can’t remember the stuff, but the trauma still affects them.

And that’s the first time I’ve actually mentioned this on an interview, but I think that’s probably maybe when it all started. And then it just progressed into teenage years; I wanted to drive fast and seek out things to boost the adrenaline. And then I got into business school, and my sleep schedule was messed up. I was working third shifts at UPS to try to pay for my college.

I quickly realized I didn’t want to be a bean-counter, I was going to be in accounting or marketing or something like that. But I realized that’s not what I wanted to do and I wanted to figure out my health issues instead. I dropped out of business school and moved down to Texas, and started studying nutritional therapy: trying to figure out how to use food as medicine.

And then I made huge progress, I probably got 80% better just by the diet alone. Lots of good green veggies, organic as much as possible, getting away from chemicals because we know those damage mitochondria and gut bacteria and other things.

I got a lot of progress, and then I lost a bunch of weight. I thought I had cancer; I lost about 25 pounds without trying in about six months. And many women joke and they’re like, “Oh, Evan, I’d love to have your problem.” It’s like, “Look, you don’t want to lose weight that fast not trying.”

I ended up finding out I had parasite infections. I had a couple friends who had looked at me and said, “Evan, you’ve probably got some infections. Let me see your fingernails.” And I looked at my fingernails and sure enough, I had some vertical lines, these vertical ridges on my fingernails. And that indicated some sort of malabsorption.

And then the question is, “Okay, do you take digestive enzymes?” And the answer is: maybe. But the question is, “Okay, well, why is there malabsorption? Why is there issues with your skin, your hair, your nails, your sleep, your detoxification? You’re sensitive to perfumes and fragrances and car exhaust, why is this happening?”

And long story short, it was the gut bugs for me. I had a yeast overgrowth, I had parasite infections, bacterial infections. I had adrenal problems, thyroid problems. I had mycoplasma pneumoniae and a couple other infections from tick bites. I had the full whammy. And all of that was compounded by me moving to Texas, leaving my family behind, working for a supplement company, getting married — that’s a stress, but it’s a good stress, having a kid.

All those things add up in your stress bucket. For me, the bucket was full and it overflowed. And then finally, I realized, “Okay, food as medicine is great, but you’ve got to have functional medicine.” That’s when I took as many functional medicine courses as I could without being a medical doctor and then got certified.

Now, I’ve helped and tested over 2,000 people. And what I found is that, look, what happened to me is not rare, it’s actually very common. In fact, 95% of the people that I’ve tested using urine organic acids testing have a candida overgrowth, just like me, due to antibiotics and sugar in the diet and other things. And I’d say 60 to 70% of the people, they have infections of some sort, whether it’s bacterial.

People throw around the term SIBO a lot, Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth. I don’t really like that term because it doesn’t tell you what the species of bacteria are, because when you’re working with a patient with autoimmune disease, it’s more important to know the species, like Klebsiella pneumoniae. That’s a common form of Hashimoto’s. Prevotella copri is a common bacterial infection that triggers rheumatoid arthritis. To me, it’s more important to know the species. That way, you can identify what’s the possible autoimmune disease rather than just say, “Hey, it’s SIBO, here’s a generic SIBO protocol.” I don’t like to do that.

Long story short, I fixed all those issues and I’m better than ever. Now, I just told you off-air, my daughter pushed herself off the table and fell out of her high chair, and busted her head on the floor and had a concussion and was throwing up and all that. That was a stress for me. And now, I’m doing all the tools I can to try to recover her.

Life is unpredictable, but I think if you want to make it in the modern world in the 21st century, you’ve got to be adaptable, whether that’s using adaptogenic herbs, whether that’s doing meditation and yoga and doing retreats and setting time for yourself, getting energy vampires out of your life, removing toxic people from your life, toxic things from your home, which I know we’ll talk about a bit. To me, this is the foundation. You must have these pillars in place to exist and thrive in the 21st century.

Robyn: When you’ve had to address all those different pillars, you’ve had to, I’m sure, learn how to manage the stress because stuff like that is going to happen. If you have kids, you’re going to have one fall out of the highchair and bang her head. You cannot be watching and catching her every second. That’s one of the most terrible realizations of being a parent, I think, is the trouble they’re going to get themselves into that you then have to help them, get them out of the jam. But learning to manage those stresses and like you said, be adaptable is part of it.

I’m glad to hear your story, and I’m sorry that you went through all that. But I think you’ll relate to when I fixed my own health, and I was obese and had 21 different diagnosed diseases and was on five different drugs, and my first child was dying — in and out of hospitals, emergency rooms, on all kinds of steroids, antibiotics, bronchodilators every four hours.

The process of turning that around, I really thought it was about him, and then I thought is about me and him. And then I thought it was about our family, and then I thought it was about our neighborhood because I started having classes and teaching people stuff and they started doing it. And now, I see that those things that I learned were for so many more people that I have the great honor to influence.

And I think you’re the same, and you’re young. I was having my experience in my 20s too and it changed me forever. And just bad habits I had back then, I’ll never go back to because I don’t want to pay the price that I was paying back then.

Evan: I know. It’s not even worth it. You’ll go out to social events and people will make fun of you for your dietary choices, it’s like, “Oh, just eat the bread or just eat this.” And it’s like, I don’t seek pleasure from food anymore in the way, not a hedonistic way. I still love everything I eat, food is delicious, you can make amazing food.

Food can taste good and be good for you. But a lot of people tease us for the things that we’ve done. I’m sure you’ve had people make fun of you for the choices you’ve made. And I’ve had people say, “Oh, Evan, you’re trying to live in a bubble.” And it’s like, “Look, glyphosate is bad news. If I can avoid it, I’m not going to use it on my yard, I’m not going to put it in my food, I’m going to stay away.”

I don’t understand why trying to be an optimal person should get shunned. I don’t know if it’s jealousy or envy or what it is. But I think ultimately people have to find their why, I think that’s what makes me a better practitioner too is because many people come to me after they’ve been to conventional doctors, and I had all the prescription pads written for myself too (I had acid blocking medications and antidepressants and all sorts of other drugs prescribed).

I never took them, but many people say, “Look, these people are recommending things they’ve never done.” And I tell people, they’ll ask me about, “Hey, Evan, what do you think about this supplement?” And if I haven’t taken it, I’m going to tell them, “Look, I haven’t taken it, I don’t know. It looks pretty good, but I haven’t taken it.”

I don’t like to do things with people that I haven’t done myself. I don’t know where that drive comes from, but I’ve been in the trenches and I want to help people get out of the trenches. You gave me goosebumps telling me about you thought it was about your kids and then you and then your neighborhood because this really is a whole, it’s a planetary issue.

You have to help people one at a time though, that’s the thing. And what do they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. We’re leading you guys to the water, but it’s up to you when you’re ready to drink. And I just want to say a quick note about that, which is don’t wait until you hit rock bottom before you try to start making changes because people like Robyn and I can help dig you out of the hole, but it’s so much easier if you just notice something is off and then you want to start fixing it.

Let’s say you’ve got some depression or some anxiety or you had a panic attack or you’ve got mood swings or PMS or a little bit of issues with sleep or energy problems or sugar cravings or brain fog or joint pain, let’s not wait until that’s to a catastrophic level where you’re dialing the emergency room and you’re getting in for urgent care. Let’s try to figure out, okay, something’s not right.

Let’s figure out what’s going on under the hood, let’s investigate these body systems. Let’s look at the adrenals, let’s look at thyroid, let’s look at mitochondrial function and liver function and neurotransmitters. And let’s look for fungus and yeast and parasites because for me, I had no choice. Like I said, I thought I had cancer. I literally went from 160 pounds, I’m about 5’10”, 5’11”, and I went down to about 130 pounds. That’s almost 30 pounds without trying. I almost looked like a concentration camp victim. I was so skinny people were asking, “Evan, are you okay? What’s wrong, what’s wrong?”

And the answer for a long time was I don’t know, I don’t know what’s wrong. Don’t do what I did, I had to do it out of choice plus necessity because I was so scared. But it’s much better to do this out of optimism rather than fear. If you’re in a place of fear, it’s really tough.

Robyn: Yeah. I think you are probably having the same experience I am where it’s a huge win if we get any kind of pattern interrupt on these lifestyle changes that we’re teaching. And I think it’s important that we be friends, all of us out here in the wellness space. And I consider part of my job listening to your podcast because I learn something from every episode.

I’m a huge Evan Brand show listener, and I learn something new in every episode. And I feel like that’s my continuing ed and it keeps me current, all the reading that I do. If I’m working out, I promise you, I’m listening to a podcast and I’m learning something about health and wellness. And sometimes I don’t agree with what I’m reading because it conflicts with something that I think is more evidence-based. But I like to always have those questions going in my head.

You and I will probably get really excited if we can get access to a mom before she has gone over the waterfall, before her kids have gone over the waterfall, and she starts making changes before the catastrophe. That’s when it feels like a big win, although, I’m perfectly happy to start with someone wherever they are. A dietary change, like you said, it’ll do 80% of it usually.

Evan: Yeah. Well, I’m so glad you brought up the moms too. I don’t really market myself as a pediatric functional medicine guy, but I’ve had to gradually evolve into that just because a lot of these doctors that are in the naturopathic field, they’ll just throw a homeopathic remedy or something at a child and that’s it. And it’s like, okay, well, the kid obviously has food intolerances and asthma and these other issues for a reason. It’s not a deficiency of homeopathic remedies just like it’s not a deficiency of antibiotics or something else. There’s a root cause.

I’ve had to learn this the hard way that a lot of these infections are passed throughout the family. You brought up kids, we’ll just go down this avenue for a minute if that’s okay, which is that I’m seeing two-year-olds and three-year-olds and four-year-olds and five-year-olds with many parasites.

I had a mom with two kids, they were five years old each. And she took the kids out of school because they were about to get kicked out of school due to their attitude problems. And we ran their stool tests, and they showed up about 30 different infections between the two twins. We’re talking five parasites each, seven different species of bacterial overgrowth, yeast, fungus, inflammation off-the-charts.

I believe that if we can start kids young — and that includes even prenatal stuff for moms — if we can make sure that moms are healthy before they get pregnant, that’s a goal. And the funny thing is too, I’ll work on a parasite protocol with a lady who wants to get pregnant and then all of a sudden she emails me, “Hey, Evan, I’m pregnant.” And I was like, “Oops, I forgot to tell you everything we do increases fertility.”

You’ve got all these infertility moms out there that are struggling and they’re paying 10 and $15,000 for the IVF treatment. But if you just fix the body, the body is amazing. You just have to help it fix itself and then all of a sudden, these issues just go away.

Robyn: Yeah. I don’t think people’s minds goes to parasite or a bacterial infection first unless they’re sick and they have flu-like symptoms. You’ve talked about ridges on your fingernails, and you had rapid weight loss. Those are kind of the more obvious ones, but what symptom should people be looking for? Because for toxic home transformation, for the summit, what I want you to go deep on is pathogens.

How do we know that we have? Obviously lab testing, but how do we even start with, “Oh, this symptom may be connected to a parasite”? I remember reading in John Robbins’ book, Diet for a New America, or maybe it’s The Food Revolution, literally 25 years ago when I started my thing that a cubic inch of red meat has a thousand larvae in it. I quit eating red meat and pork, I’ll never eat pork again 25 years ago, and a lot of animal products.

But I think people think that the answer is to eat sterilized food and never eat any vegetables and fruits. And vegetables and fruits can have parasites. But to me, that’s not at all the answer. Talk about some common symptoms that might make somebody wonder, “Oh, I wonder if I have this underlying chronic infection that’s a bacterial or viral or a parasite.” Talk a little bit about that and then we’ll go deeper.

Evan: Sure. People may say I’m biased because that’s what I work on so much, but I would say it’s almost anything and everything that’s not right with you. As I mentioned, energy problems.

It could be energy swings: one day you may feel good and then the next day you feel terrible and there’s no correlation or major change in lifestyle. You’re just drained for some reason. You’re waking up not feeling rested, like you’ve got to go for that coffee — imagining a day without coffee is bad or stressful. That’s something that’s not right. And I’ll explain a little bit of the mechanism just for the listeners and then we’ll kind of dive back into symptoms.

The mechanism of all this is that it’s multiple. These infections, they’re stealing your nutrients because there’s competition. Just like when we’re talking about Lyme disease and then the co-infections like your Bartonella and your Babesia, et cetera.

These things need amino acids to thrive. Your dietary protein, whether that’s plant proteins, whether that’s animal proteins, whatever your source, those proteins are supposed to get broken down into amino acids and then those amino acids then go to manufacture neurotransmitters and hormones and make all of our body systems run, feed the mitochondria, et cetera.

And when you have these infections, think of it as if you’re a gardener: you may have one of those little hose diverters where the hose can go two ways and there’s a little knob in the center. It’s almost like that knob is getting stuck in the center. Some of the water flow is going to this other direction, which is the bugs. And then some of your water flow is making it to your garden to nourish you.

When that happens, that’s when energy levels go down. That’s when sleep gets affected because you have to have certain neurotransmitters, like tryptophan to make serotonin, which then combined with vitamin B6 makes melatonin, which isn’t just important for sleep: melatonin is one of the most potent antioxidant hormones that fights cancer, which is why there’s research on night shift nurses. Type in night shift nurses breast cancer into PubMed, you’ll see that women who work night shift as a nurse, they’re 50% more likely to develop breast cancer than someone working day shift. And it’s due to the melatonin being disrupted because they’re under artificial light at night and they’re not obeying the laws of sunlight, which is get up with the sun and go to bed with the sun.

Back to symptoms though: this could be joint pain, it could be migrating, or it may be stagnant. It could be digestive issues, it could be bloating, it could be heartburn, which would likely indicate like an H, pylori infection (forgot to mention that; I had H. pylori as well). H. pylori damages the parietal cells of your gut; these are the cells that make stomach acid.

If you’re getting heartburn, you’re getting bloating, burping, indigestion, if you have rosacea, if you have eczema, you have dermatitis, you’ve got issues with your scalp, you’ve got maybe the keratosis pilaris on the back of your triceps, you’ve got little bumps, maybe you’ve just got some random spots of dry or flaky skin somewhere else. Look, it’s not a deficiency of topical steroids that your dermatologist is going to give you, it’s not.

My wife was covered in hives at one point, she had bumps all over her body. It turned out not only was she allergic to all the skin care products she was using, but she had some infections as well. We had to treat those with herbs. What else symptom-wise? Robyn, we could go on and on, and on.

I think mood issues too, depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety. I had a mom a few weeks ago, I believe her son was 9 years old, maybe 10. She lives in New Jersey and they take the subway to school, they get on the subway together. And the mom told me that the kid tripped on the subway when he was walking on and tripped. And he told his mom, “You know what, I’d rather just kill myself.” I said, “Whoa, how long has he been saying that?” And she said, “Oh, he’s been saying suicidal stuff for several years.”

And sure enough, we get his gut test back and the kid has more infections than I had. I can’t say 100% this causes this, but these are just correlations that you see in the clinic that science is not going to test. It’s like, who’s going to do the double-blind placebo study, give a bunch of people a Giardia parasite infection, and then see who of those people get suicidal thoughts or not. There’s some stuff that we have to depend on, clinical pearls versus waiting on the research, same thing with passing infections between each other.

Kind of to answer your question in a longer form: you couples, I see a lot of couples. And the literature is not 100% clear on this, but 90% of the time, the partner has the same infections or similar infections because you can pass things like H. pylori, the bacteria through saliva, oral sex, kissing, intercourse. The literature is not clear because who’s going to do that study. This is stuff you just have to figure out.

Now, 10% of the time, the wife may show up with an infection and the husband doesn’t have it. But I tell you more often than not, 9 times out of 10, you’ve got to come in and support the whole family. And then this is how the babies get infected too; is the mom maybe feeding the kid from her fork, “Hey, baby, try this, try a bite of this, try a bite of that.” And the bug gets passed (when I say bug, this is microscopic. You’re not going to see it crawling). The mom gives the baby the food, the fork or the spoon or the drink, or they share the cup, and then the H. pylori gets passed and then the kid ends up with reflux and then the pediatric doc puts them on an acid blocker and then they develop skin issues because they’re not digesting their food anymore.

The whole cascade, the whole domino effect can happen just from a minor infection, which is why I talk about it so much like a broken record, but it’s just because I see it so often.

Robyn: Blood tests: you can order them, you can work with people remotely. Telemedicine has probably really been helpful to people who can work with somebody like you, even though you’re in Kentucky. Talk about the blood test and what you learn, and then what the treatment looks like once you figure out specifically what pathogens someone’s actually contending with.

Evan: Sure. Everything we’ve discussed so far, you can find those with two different tests. One is the organic acids panel, this is an at-home urine test. You wake up or you have the kid wake up, you collect first morning’s urine, you get that back to the lab.

The second one is the stool panel; I use one called a GI map which is a DNA PCR based test. Conventional docs and gastroenterologist, what they use is called antigen-based testing, or they use microscopy, which is where they have a human looking at the poop. And obviously, human error is a big issue; they miss infections very, very often. There’s a high, high, high rate of false negatives. This is why I use those tests because they’re about a thousand times more sensitive than what a conventional test will look at.

I do run some blood just depending on the case. I don’t run it always, but I do run it a lot more because I am seeing, unfortunately, so many people with Hashimoto’s and other autoimmune diseases that we just have to run blood to check and see, “Okay, are the antibodies rising; are the antibodies coming down?” The good thing is the blood work generally goes in a positive direction once you work on the gut. I may just go based on symptoms and I may not do blood right away. I do blood for Lyme and for testing the co-infections and all that stuff too, looking for inflammation markers. But I’d say 90% of the issues that people face, you can really solve and investigate those issues with saliva, stool and urine. And then if you can’t or you start to spin your wheels, you can get blood work and look deeper.

But once again, this is going to be a custom blood panel, this is not going to be just a standard CBC because, unless you’re at a disease level, there’s not much that changes. There’s little minor things that change; white blood cell count tends to drop if you have a chronic infection. You may see ferritin dropping, which is a common issue with women that are losing a lot of hair or they can’t catch their breath.

Ferritin can go low, which is an iron storage protein. That gets affected by parasites. A lot of women, they’ll go on an iron supplement. They’re like, “Evan, why is it my ferritin or my iron coming back up? Why am I so anemic?” And it’s like, “Well, you’ve probably got a gut bug, look at your white blood cells, they’re really low, which would indicate chronic infection and a leaky gut situation going on.”

The blood does fill in a lot of the blanks. I think of it as kind of the glue for the puzzle. The functional medicine labs are the big pieces and then the blood is the glue that kind of seals the picture together.

Robyn: Are there are some specific parasites or infections that you’re seeing a lot of? When you’re testing blood of your clients are there somewhere you can say 80% of the people I get tested have this or 60% have that? Just so that someone who’s listening and has thought, “Gosh, I have not really thought much about having infections or parasites.”

I travel internationally a lot; I take my readers to Switzerland every June. I’ll be there for three weeks this June and it’s a clinic of biological medicine. You should come with us, it’s amazing and you could-

Evan: It sounds fun.

Robyn: Yeah. You should sit in, you should do rounds with them and sit in with patients. They don’t have the HIPPA laws there; they let our practitioners that we take sit in on any patient meetings if the patient is okay with it. But they have looked at my blood and year after year what’s in my blood is different. And they have said there’s parasites here and they have said there’s a bacterial infection here. And they can tell by what my white blood cells are doing how many white blood cells I have and also structures in my live blood analysis.

Talk about what you see a lot in children and adults.

Evan: Yeah, sure. I mentioned the candida; I’m doing a whole summit on it because it’s huge. I was going to call it the Infection Summit, but then I thought, well, if people hear infection, they’re going to think, “I don’t have an infection,” and then they’re not going to pay attention.

Like I said, I’ve tested over 2,000 people and here’s some statistics. Just a disclaimer, I may be biased because people are coming to me with health symptoms. No one’s coming and saying, “Evan, I feel 100% amazing, I just want to get checked out.” There are those people. And guess what, those people even show up with infections. They thought they felt amazing, we fix something and then they feel even more amazing. There is that small percentage.

But most people have an issue; they’ve been to practitioners before they get to me. That disclaimer stated 90 to 95% of the 2,000 people have candida overgrowth, meaning it’s off the charts: they’re doing what’s called auto-intoxication syndrome where the aldehyde and basically an alcohol-like compound is produced from the yeast, and it’s making the person drunk, causing brain fog. Some people think they have dementia and Alzheimer’s because their brain is so bad, but it’s just Candida. That’s the biggest thing I see.

Robyn: 90 to 95%.

Evan: 90 to 95%. If I don’t see a candida overgrowth, I’m like, “Whoa, that’s amazing. Is this accurate? Do we need to retest? What the heck’s going on, this is amazing.”

Robyn: I realize this is what your whole summit is about. We don’t want to go too far sideways on candida, but I think a lot of people are curious about it and I think you’re going to get really good attendance at your summit because a lot of people have been diagnosed with candida overgrowth, probably just about everybody who’s been on antibiotic really ever. People who eat very much sugar and flour — processed food — they’re probably really, really likely to have it.

What’s the diet? I always say a candida-starvation diet is one of the hardest diets. What do they eat? I want to hear it from you because there’s people who are like, they’re taken off of all fruits, all starchy vegetables. Basically, they’re eating greens, some vegetables and meat. And I’m a plant-based eater, I would probably die on that diet with that much meat. But I think that a lot of the plant foods are going to feed that candida, though it might be a healthy diet for a healthy person, but not honestly someone with candida. Talk about the diet for just a minute.

Evan: Yeah. The things that I really pull out are the fermented stuff at least just temporarily. Kombucha is a big no-no at least temporarily because the woman that I saw who had the biggest candida I’ve ever seen, the biggest candida overgrowth, meaning that her arabinose and her tartaric acid, these are markers that you measure on the OAT test. Her levels were hundreds of times higher than normal and she looked like she was nine months pregnant after she ate anything. She ate a walnut and her stomach would blow up. She was drinking five kombuchas a day. That’s crazy. Now, kombucha has some benefits, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Same with your fermented.

Robyn: I think that you probably crave the kombucha and other sweet foods if you have Candida because you’ve literally got billions of microbes screaming for the food they want, which is sugar. People with candida, their candida is out of control, their sugar cravings have got to make them feel completely insane. And Evan, just so you know, the worst I’ve ever seen, it’s very similar.

It was a guy and he was at the ashram where I go to water fast once a year. And he was there for a 21-day water fast. And I was there with him for nine days and we stayed in the same building. Everybody shares one bathroom, it’s super one-star. But it’s always an adventure. And he was there to starve out the candida. And I do want to say, I thought it was pretty interesting; he was successful, he went home. He had been a meth addict, no, heroin addict in and out of hospitals, got a MRSA infection in the hospital. He was on a month of antibiotics and anything at all that he ate, anything, he swelled up. I have a picture of it, it’s in one of my video master classes. He gave me permission. His gut would swell. He was a thin guy, he was like 6’3″ thin guy, fit guy, looked eight months pregnant, fully eight months pregnant if he ate just any food at all. Anyways, a water fast is not for everyone. But he was serious about it; he was miserable enough and he did it. And it worked.

Evan: Gosh, I believe it. And you and I were texting back and forth about my issues and I told you when I got my wisdom teeth and my 12 year molars extracted; unfortunately, I did get put on antibiotics and did it out of fear. And that’s probably a big downturn in my whole candida journey. But back to some of the stuff we were talking about-

Robyn: The diet, candida diet.

Evan: Yes. That lady, she was doing a ton of Kombucha, but she was doing the other fermenteds too. Now, a lot of people are promoting fermented foods like sauerkraut and kimchi and things like that, which I do believe have value. And a lot of people talk about probiotics.

Now, the funny thing is in the health space, a lot of us are do-it-yourselfers. But that can be a downfall sometimes, and then you build up what I call the supplement graveyard, which is where you’ve got a whole pantry of stuff that you’re not really taking anymore because you heard it would help or work so you bought it, and you tried it, and you didn’t do much with it. And I want to prevent people from building up a bigger supplement graveyard because, yes, probiotics can be good, yes, kombucha can be good, yes, fermenteds can be good. But what I found is, sometimes, it’s adding gasoline to the fire.

Before you throw in all these beneficial fermented things, you may need to come in and clean up the fire first — before you come in and reinoculate with the good guys. This is why some people, including myself, take probiotics and they feel terrible. They get worse bloating, they get more fatigue, they get more skin issues. And it’s because you’ve got to clear things out.

It’s kind of like if you were to use a garden analogy. If the garden is just covered in weeds and you just come in and throw a ton of fertilizer, everything’s going to grow better. That’s including the bad guy. You may need to come in, let’s pick out the weeds first. And how I do that, is systemically with herbs once you knock out the bugs, then you can come back in and go ahead and reseed and add your probiotics in later. But the order of operations is something that people mess up.

Now, I don’t believe you need to cut out all fruit. In fact, I ate berries pretty much the whole time during my parasite and candida protocol and I did just fine. I think if you’re not getting crazy with it, you’re keeping it low glycemic, you’re doing your blackberries or blueberries or raspberries, make more organic please, you should be okay.

Now, am I going to say go for like mangoes and pineapples and stuff like that? Probably not. I think it’s a bad idea, especially the dried fruits. A lot of women tell me their favorite snack is dried mango strips, it’s like, “Whoa, that’s probably a no-no.” Fruit snack, stuff like that, let’s keep it real food.

I’m a huge fan of smoothies because many people are juicing, but with juicing you’re removing the fiber. Then you’re just creating a massive blood sugar spike, and that’s affecting the pancreas. And then that affects the adrenals, and then the liver gets involved.

I would just say go for smoothies over juicing, and just throw in a couple berries and maybe you throw in some coconut or some avocado, some pumpkin seeds, have some good fat in there. Throw in your greens with it, and stick with that. But do I believe that you have to cut out all carbs, all fruits, all sugars? I don’t. I’ve seen enough success with just having people follow a lower sugar, lower fruit diet, low glycemic. And then as long as you’re doing the herbs consistently, within six or eight weeks, you can take care of it.

Robyn: Do you want to talk in any more detail about testing and treating infections in the gut?

Evan: Yeah, sure. I’ll just mention get the organic acids test if you’re working with a functional medicine practitioner. Just ask them; I’m sure they’re going to run it anyway, but not everyone knows how to read it. A lot of people run testing now because it makes them sound smart, which is cool. Testing is becoming trendy, that’s why you’ve got like 23andMe. They have 23andMe at Walgreens now, did you know that?

Robyn: No.

Evan: Yeah. I went to Walgreens and they had 23andMe testing. I’m like, “Holy smokes, genetic testing at Walgreens. Who would have thought?” Testing is becoming trendy, which is great. I’m glad that awareness is rising. But just because somebody knows how to run a test doesn’t mean they know how to make a protocol based on it.

Make sure that whatever practitioner you’re seeking out is putting out regular content, videos, podcast, audio, blogs, something because if they have a really nice smile and super white teeth and all that, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re going to get you better. And I tell people, “Look, I’m not a medical doctor. I’ve had to figure this stuff out the hard way and take as much training and education and seek out mentors that are smarter than me because I don’t want to be perceived as a guru. I just want to be somebody who’s figured out enough stuff to help people.” That’s my little disclaimer about practitioners.

But get yourself an organic acids test; get yourself a GI Maps tool test and run it. You may spend 600 to 1,000 bucks to get a good functional medicine workup on yourself. But look, a diabetes medication is $1,000 a month after insurance. If you had a massive infection affecting blood sugar that was cranking up your A1C and affecting your pancreas and such, it’s like, “Man, what if we could prevent you from getting diabetes, or some other issue where you’ve got to be on pharmaceuticals, and we could find it now?” Just get yourself tested, that’s the message.

And then in terms of treatment, there’s websites dedicated to shaming herbs and saying that specifically for the infections —

(I never answered the rest of your question, let me briefly answer it. Other infections I see, Blastocystis hominis, very, very common parasite. H. pylori, very, very common bacterial infection. Dientamoeba fragilis, very, very common parasite. Cyclospora, that’s a waterborne parasite, Giardia Cryptosporidium. I see these every single day, I’ve got clients after this interview. I’ll probably see those on their labs today)

— the good thing is herbs can successfully treat these. You’ve got medical docs making website saying it’s a myth, herbs are BS, it’s pseudoscience. “You can’t get rid of parasites without anti-parasitic drugs”, not true. Look at my lab results before and after, look at the thousands of lab results before and after. I’ve got proof: here’s test A because I like data, I like science. Here’s test B, and here’s the protocol we use — no pharmaceuticals because I can’t prescribe them, and I wouldn’t if I could — and they’re gone. Yes, don’t get discouraged if you’ve been told that you can’t treat these things naturally, that’s wrong.

Robyn: Okay. What you talked about, kissing, that every time you kiss someone, you’re kind of taking on their entire toxic body burden probably. I probably should share this with my two college daughters.

Evan: Tell them, absolutely.

Robyn: Limit your partnerships, that’s easy right there.

Evan: Investigate your partner’s too. I work with a lot of teenagers too, because a lot of moms come with teenagers having mood issues, or they can’t focus in school. And the teenager always gets embarrassed because I’m like, “Okay, do you have a boyfriend?” And it’s like, “Okay, are you sexually active with that boyfriend?” They’re like, “Yep.” I’m like, “Okay, let’s get him tested.” And then they come back with infections and then we’re like, “Okay, this is why mom spent 500 bucks on herbs.”

We eradicated the H. pylori, but then three months later you’re emailing me again, “Hey, she’s had a flare-up, her symptoms are back.” And then I say, “Are you still with the same boyfriend? Okay, you’re still the same guy. Okay, good, let’s test him.” And then boom, they had it. Then we go and we give a protocol for the boyfriend, then they’re both cleared out; then they can stay better.

And same thing with pets, a lot of people playing with their dog toys and stuff like whipworm. I’ve been seeing a lot of whipworm lately, which is about a two inch worm. The CDC says they lay between 2 and 20,000 eggs a day. If the dog has whipworm, you can test for it on a client. Not a dog –maybe you could put a dog’s poop and test it. Why couldn’t you? — but I’m testing adults, not dogs, or humans — not dogs.

But I found that people that have dogs, it takes them longer to get rid of worms. I’m guessing, I can’t prove this, but what I’m guessing is that maybe if the dog has the infection, maybe some fecal oral transmission is happening and that the eggs are maybe on the dog toy and then you throw the dog toy and then you’re like, “Oh, my nose itches,” or, “oh, I got to pick my teeth.” And then maybe you ingest a small microscopic egg and then that starts the whole life cycle all over again. Sometimes I think you need to be treating your pets too.

Robyn: Interesting. You have mentioned that relationships play into gut health; is it more than just that? The fact that you’re actually exchanging microbes affects your infection rate, affects your immune system, your relationships. Have we said everything we want to say there?

Evan: I would add one more comment. I got more emails from a YouTube video I did on energy vampires than any other video. People are like, “Evan, nobody’s talking about this.” It’s like, well, energy vampires are real. I think from the relationship aspect, if you’ve got a bad husband or a bad boss or a bad friend or somebody who’s disrespecting you, or negatively affecting your health.

And that’s the hard part because sometimes it is your partner and you’ve got to … I’m not a therapist with emotions but I’ve learned enough to try to help people walk through these situations. Some people have to go through divorces to heal. Some people have to go through breakups to heal, some people have to quit their job or get a new boss or get a new best friend to heal because there are emotional roadblocks that do affect health. We know now with the whole ACE questionnaire, the Adverse Childhood Experiences and traumas, that these do affect the immune system.

And if your immune system is constantly suppressed because you’re getting verbally abused, physically abuse, et cetera, how can you heal? All the leaky gut supplements in the world will not heal you if you’ve got a bad relationship. I just encourage people don’t be afraid. And if you do need to cut someone out of your life, if you tried to mitigate the issues and you can’t, unfortunately, you may have to cut them out. And that’s what I’ve had to do, I’ve had to systemically remove people.

Systematically is what I meant to say, systematically remove people because you can feel it. You come into the room and something happens. Your gut hurts, or you have anxiety, or you have heart palpitations, or you start to panic. You get a little bit shaky when you’re around that person. That’s a sign that something’s up. Try to fix it. And if you can’t, you might have to part ways. I hate to say that, but it’s a reality.

Robyn: I’ll tell you, I absolutely agree with you. And when I talk about this issue — because I’m a psychotherapist by background — when I talk about this issue, I get real actual positives back from people, but also some negatives because they always come back with, “I can’t.” They say “my boss is killing me” or “this coworker is killing me” or “my marriage is killing me” and I’m like “Well…”

At the risk of sounding like, “hey, this is easy for me to say,” I was a divorced person myself. I was married for 20 years. Easy for me to say, “Well, get out of the relationship.” But, I actually think there are some issues that people should work through in their marriages. 10 years ago they were completely miserable and didn’t think they can fix it, and now they’re completely happy. And I believe that there are many situations like that. But I think we all have to get over the idea that relationships sometimes have permanence… Everybody who walks in the room, we don’t have to attach to them for life.

And it’s okay to have a limited relationship, and it’s okay to have a relationship that has pretty firm boundaries. One of the people who raised me, I have a pretty thick 10-foot brick wall to that person. They’re allowed if there’s a party at my house, that’s fine. But I need the wall. I have a relationship with them, but the boundaries have to be maintained.

I feel like sometimes we have to acknowledge that a relationship has a season, and that it was there to teach us something. We had some kind of growth that happened in the crucible of that relationship. It does not mean we have to keep that relationship for life, or we fall into this dark depression and we cannot live without this one person. I don’t believe that that’s the case.

So, I agree with you; I’m glad you’re talking about that because I think getting rid of the toxic relationships in my life, or managing them when it comes to someone that I’m linked to for life by biology, is as significant in my own healing, and coming to a place where I love my life and I’m happy and healthy. I think that getting rid of those toxic relationships has been as significant in my healing as changing my diet to be a whole foods, mostly organic plant based diet has been, I really do.

Evan: Oh, God, I believe it. I think it could even be more powerful. I can’t tell you how many people are like, “Evan, I do yoga three times a week, I eat 100% organic, I eat a ton of plants, I meditate, I go to the beach. I feel terrible, my life sucks, I hate everything, I’m depressed.” “How’s your relationship?” “Oh, I haven’t had sex with my husband in 10 years. He sleeps on the couch, I sleep in a separate bedroom. We don’t speak to each other, we just live in the same house.” It’s like, “Whoa, extra yoga is not going to fix that, I’m sorry.”

Part of me thinks, man I might just do nothing but relationship work with people. I don’t have a psychotherapy background to do that. What you and I are talking about here is so huge, that you can’t go to Amazon or Whole Foods and buy some miracle supplement that’s going to out-supplement this issue. You have to face this.

And I’m sorry, it’s not going to be easy, but you have to do it. And, look we’ve been through some crazy stuff in my life/relationship stuff. And you will get through it, that’s the cool thing about humans is we’re pretty resilient. But that’s a chronic stress in that stress bucket. That’s the last thing I’ll say about it.

Robyn: Yeah. Just because you’re used to it doesn’t mean that you’re fine.

Evan: Agreed. And it’s a hole in the bucket. It’s like, okay, you throw in the yoga, the meditation, the retreats, the travel, the this, the that. That it’s like, okay, cool, but look at that big hole in the bucket. I’m sorry that energy bucket can’t fill up if you’ve got that big hole. That thing has to be patched. And if it can’t be patched, you’ve got to replace the bucket.

Robyn: Yeah. And I think that you would be wise to learn some good modalities to help people with their relationships, because I think you’re finding the same thing that I am. The last 11 years as GreenSmoothieGirl online and with 14 of the 15 books that I wrote, I’m helping people with their nutrition. But like you, I meet people who are like, they’re doing everything right, they’re probably eating a healthier diet than I do. And then this last book, my 15th book I talk about those things.

Vibe is talking about how even in psychotherapy, there is stuff we’re missing. All these energetic connections with people. I have a chapter in the book on Tantra and reconnecting sexually. So many relationships are broken because of the weird things that we do that disconnects, porn being just one of them, and how we are so very disconnected in this culture. Psychotherapists aren’t looking at the connection between what people eat and how they show up in their relationships, but I think there’s a big connection there. I think there’s an enormous connection there.

Evan: I agree. I’ll make a brief comment. It’s always interesting you have these specialists like you’ve got the kidney specialist, the liver specialist, the heart specialist, the brain specialist. It’s like, okay, I think specialty is good and important, but I’m predicting within the next 20 years that everything, just like you mentioned, all of us and the health space need to be together like a spider web.

I’m hoping that every branch of medicine starts to just merge into one conglomerate because we’re realizing over and over again that the science is clear: there’s no separation between mind and gut. There’s no separation between mind and body, there’s no separation between physical energy and emotional energy and vibrations coming from a person and how those vibrations affect you. I hope everything is going to have a mass convergence. And I don’t know exactly when or how that will manifest, but I’m putting that out to the universe. Let’s hope it happens.

Robyn: Yeah. I think one thing that — I’ll check this out with you and see if you agree with it — but I think so many people they come to us and they want the easiest fix, and they usually want to supplement.

Supplements can do a lot of work. And you work with these adaptogenic herbs and you work with things that actually sort of remove the food source from the bacteria or actually kill the parasite. And there are plant-based supplements that do that and they are evidence-based. And I’ve seen amazing things happen from using plant-based medicine. At the clinic in Switzerland, they use no drugs. The two medical doctors that run the place, they believe in the creed they were charged with, which is first, do no harm. They’re not going to go straight to a pharmaceutical and nuke the crap out of the microbiome. They’re going to use something that works with the body’s adaptive systems.

But anyway, people come to us and they want to supplement or they want to change their diet, but they don’t want to fix their toxic work situation or their toxic caretaker situation or whatever. I just find with most people that we work with that it’s not just one thing, they’re going to have to address two or three or all those different areas. Are you finding the same?

Evan: Oh, 100%. It’s a spider web, you can’t go and touch the left side of the spider web with the right side being affected. It’s like, okay, cool, amino acid you’re great. You can come in with tyrosine, and help someone’s dopamine and catecholamines, fix their energy, fix their drive. But if they’ve got an infection, the tyrosine is a crutch; or if someone’s got an endorphin issue, they’re tearing up, they’re crying easily, they’re really sensitive to emotional or physical pain, you suspect they’ve got endorphin deficiency. You can come in with DLPA, which is DL phenylalanine, and rebuild that. But you’ve got to find the root.

You could take somebody with anxiety and panic attacks and issues like that and you can give them a GABA supplement or passion flower or valerian root or cava or theanine or blue vervain or ashwagandha. But are you working backwards to figure out why the anxiety and the stuff is there in the first place?

I had a lady who — I’ll mention two ladies real quick. I had a lady who had done everything right, fixed all of her labs, everything looked beautiful on the piece of paper, but she couldn’t lose weight. And I’m not a huge fan of a weight loss goal because it usually just happens as a side effect of getting healthy. And I’m like, “Okay, I hear you, you want to lose 20 pounds.” And then I asked her one day, I said, “Hey, is there something that we haven’t discussed.” I said, “I’ve done everything for you, we fixed mitochondria, the liver is better, brain’s better, infections are gone. Is there something you haven’t discussed with me?” And she goes, “Yeah, it’s my husband.” She was like, “I’ve been thinking that we need to get separated for 10 years but I just haven’t brought it up because I’m scared to.”

And I said, “Okay, well, I’m not a therapist with relationships, but I just want you to go home and why don’t you guys just talk about it?” She went home and she talked over the issues with her husband. And I followed up with her in six weeks and she had lost 20 pounds in six weeks. And I said, “Holy crap, what did you do?” And she says, “I did nothing.” I’m like, “You had to do something.” And she goes, “Oh, well, I did talk to my husband, we worked everything out.”

Robyn: Wow, yeah, even just the energetic shift that communication creates — talking about the hard thing, talking about the wide elephant in the room. Lots of marriages get stuck for years or decades around an issue. Sometimes issues-

Evan: I had another story in my brain, but I lost it. But that one’s a cool enough story to mention.

Robyn: That’s a pretty cool story of how sometimes its energy that we have to change to lose the weight, to kill the bug, whatever it is.

Well, you’ve been an incredible source of amazing information, Evan. Tell us three other things that you did on your own wellness journey. You know a ton about a ton of subjects, what are three things that you cleaned up in your home? Just in the spirit of toxic home transformation, what are three areas you addressed? And you can talk about what brands you changed to, or whatever room in your house that you decided these specific chemicals have got to go. They were causing a reaction. You can talk about your baby daughter, any of that.

Evan: Sure, yeah. Well, the first toxin is, hey, get rid of this darn bar stool. That way, she won’t push herself off the table and hit her head again. We sold the table and chairs. Now, we’ve got a really small, low-to-the-ground table and chairs. Thank goodness. Look out for things that your kids can fall off of. That’s more toxic than anything else.

Secondly, I just built a house and we used a paint called ROMABIO, like Rome but with an A, ROMABIO. And it’s a potassium-based paint, which is kind of cool. It’s almost like they took a potassium supplement and ground it up and painted it on your walls.

(The zero VOC thing is kind of a myth in the industry, that’s kind of a buzzword like natural or gluten is. Sherman Williams and these big paint companies say zero VOC, but that only means no VOCs for certain types of VOCs. That doesn’t mean there’s no off-gassing period. You got to go beyond VOC just like certain farmers say we go beyond organic, same thing with the paint industry.)

We did a full potassium based paint in our home, we did a cork flooring from a company called Cali Bamboo. They make a bamboo floor too, but bamboo is really hard and it can scratch. Cork is a little bit softer-

Robyn: We also learned from my interview with Andy Pace, who is the Green Design Center man, and he consults with people. It’s not green building materials like the building industry calls it, but he actually looks at the health of the human occupant and the toxicity level of everything from paint to furniture to fluorine. He said, just so you know, good choice on the cork; with bamboo products, yes, it’s very sustainable because they’re weeds and all that, but they are put through a process so that bamboo flooring actually picks up a lot of the same chemicals in it that there are in the very worst floorings.

Evan: Oh, man. Well, that’s good. Yeah, I didn’t know that, I just thought bamboo was too hard so I just went with a cork instead. I’ll try not to repeat too much that the healthy home guy said.

But addressing EMF was another thing too, I made sure that there’s certain type of breakers. Now, I’m sorry because I don’t know the name of the breaker. I want to say it’s a double arc breaker, don’t quote me on the name. But there’s a certain type of breaker that you can get installed in your breaker box that I had the electrician do.

And what that certain breaker does, if there is a wire shortage or some type of a dirty electricity problem in the home, it will trip the breaker verses your standard breakers, they will not trip and you can have dirty electricity, massive EMF issue in the home and the breaker will not alert you. I think it’s called a double arc fault breaker, but I’m not 100% sure. Consultant your electrician, ask him what I’m talking about. It’s typically a white little breaker inlet versus a black breaker insert.

We did that and then we had kind of an extra coating on the wire throughout the house to try to mitigate any dirty electricity, or what’s called ELF, the very low frequency fields. And then we are doing the Stetzer filters from Graham Stetzer. And I have measured those. Some people talk about dirty electricity filters, but the caveat is you have to make sure you’re not making a magnetic field problem worse because if there is a wiring issue, and you plug in a green way for a Stetzer filter, you can actually increase the magnetic fields and you make a worse problem.

You need to make sure that you’ve got a building biologist or just do your own research if you get smart enough about it on your own. Measure the before and after with magnetic fields, because you can have some people buy dirty electricity filters to fix a high frequency noise problem, which is separate from a magnetic field problem.

Magnetic field is typically from motors and things like that. Dirty electricity is a separate type of EMF, bad guy. Reducing dirty electricity can increase magnetic fields. We could do a whole nother hour on this. But just do it before and after and make sure you haven’t made a problem worse when you think you’re making it better. EMF would be a big one, the paint, the floor would be a big one.

And then I moved out into the country. It’s kind of inconvenient because when my daughter hit her head, it was like 45 minutes to get to the hospital. But pray to God that that’s a rare situation and that the rest of the time, we can be out in the peace and quiet. And I planted a ton of trees and I’ve got 80 acres of forest behind me where my daughter and my wife and I, we watch all the birds. That’s our favorite hobby is to watch birds. We got a Baltimore Oriole the other day. That was so cool to see him come in and migrate north for the spring.

I think connecting to nature is important for your home. Try to integrate nature, the whole Fung Shui thing. I’ve got so many plants that people think I’m starting a nursery. It’s like, what are you doing? I love plants, I’ve got so many plants I can hardly keep up with. I’ve got blueberries out there in the yard, I’ve got peaches and apples and evergreens and honey berries, which is a new thing I just learned about.

And what else do I have? Service berries, I’ve got a raised bed garden out there where I’ve got some other stuff growing. I think connecting to nature, even if you live in an urban environment, you can still grow herbs or something to try to ground yourself. I’m a huge fan of being grounded to the planet both physically, emotionally, chemically, spiritually, and planting and putting your hands in the dirt.

Oh, my gosh, there’s no better thing. If I’m stressed out, I’ll just go buy a new tree and I’ll plant it. And then I come inside, I’m just like, “Oh, I feel so good.” It is therapy for me to go plant stuff. I think that’s good advice.

You said three, but I’m going to give you one more too, which is really, really take your sleep environment seriously. I’m sure people have mentioned that and they say the typical boring stuff like cool, dark, blackout curtains. But measure your bedroom for magnetic fields and dirty electricity because my daughter, when she was an infant (now, she’s almost two), all of us were kind of having some sleeping issues. And we thought, “Well, why don’t we try turning off the breaker to the bedroom?” We turned off the breaker to the bedroom and all of a sudden she started sleeping much better through the night. And she’s not susceptible to placebo effect.

It’s like, okay, we changed nothing else: flipped the switch, turned off the power to the bedroom, she started sleeping better. It’s free, it doesn’t cost anything to try this. And if your Wi-Fi router is in your bedroom or on at night, or your cell phone is charging on your nightstand… I’ve had teenagers with their cell phone under their pillow, don’t let your kids sleep with their cell phone under the pillow. Put it on airplane mode if they’re going to do that. These are simple things and it cost nothing to try it. But if you’re sleeping good, then your daytime life is going to be much better.

Robyn: Yeah. So many words of wisdom there, I love it. I appreciate you and I appreciate the show that you’re doing. Nobody pays you to do a podcast. And you’ve interviewed some amazing guests, and you’re an outstanding interviewer. I really enjoy your own depth of the way you ask questions.

It’s the Evan Brand show, everyone, friends. Make sure you check that out. And Evan, thank you so much for this conversation today. I loved it.

Evan: Robyn, thank you so much, it’s so good to chat with each other. We’ll get you on my podcast soon too, we’ll have some fun together.

Robyn: That sounds good, have a wonderful Monday.

#282 Dr. Mark Hyman on The Truth About Candida Diets


Mark Hyman, MD, believes that we all deserve a life of vitality—and that we have the potential to create it for ourselves. That’s why he is dedicated to tackling the root causes of chronic disease by harnessing the power of Functional Medicine to transform healthcare. Dr. Hyman and his team work every day to empower people, organizations, and communities to heal their bodies and minds, and improve our social and economic resilience. 

Dr. Hyman is a practicing family physician, a ten-time #1 New York Timesbestselling author, and an internationally recognized leader, speaker, educator, and advocate in his field. He is the Director the Cleveland Clinic Center for Functional Medicine. He is also the founder and medical director of The UltraWellness Center, chairman of the board of the Institute for Functional Medicine, a medical editor of The Huffington Post, and was a regular medical contributor on many television shows including CBS This Morning, Today Show, Good Morning America, CNN, and The View, Katie and The Dr. Oz Show.

Dr. Hyman works with individuals and organizations, as well as policy makers and influencers. He has testified before both the White House Commission on Complementary and Alternative Medicine and the Senate Working Group on Health Care Reform on Functional Medicine. He has consulted with the Surgeon General on diabetes prevention, and participated in the 2009 White House Forum on Prevention and Wellness. Senator Tom Harkin of Iowa nominated Dr. Hyman for the President’s Advisory Group on Prevention, Health Promotion, and Integrative and Public Health. In addition, Dr. Hyman has worked with President Clinton, presenting at the Clinton Foundation’s Health Matters, Achieving Wellness in Every Generation conference and the Clinton Global Initiative, as well as with the World Economic Forum on global health issues. He is the winner of the Linus Pauling Award, The Nantucket Project Award, and was inducted in the Books for Better Life Hall of Fame, and the Christian Book of the Year Award for The Daniel Plan.

#279 Dr. Dan Kalish on "American Meditation", Candida and Eating Beans!


Dr. Daniel Kalish is dedicated to teaching doctors Functional Medicine philosophy and practices. Through The Kalish Institute’s educational programs he has trained over 1,000 practitioners worldwide in The Kalish Method which solves patient challenges through a proven lab based approach.

In May 2016 a research study published by two Mayo Clinic researchers confirmed the efficacy of the Kalish Method showing significant improvements in GI health and quality of life in the study participants. The study was based on Dr. Kalish’s model of Functional Medicine based on 25 years of successful clinical results. Graduates of The Kalish Institute include practitioners ranging from Dr. Mercola’s medical staff to Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic physicians.

Today We Discuss

#268 Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand on SIBO and SIFO!

#268 Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand on SIBO and SIFO!

Your gut affects your health in a variety of ways, and it’s not just about digestion. The health status of your gut can influence the immune system, your weight, and even your mood! In today’s part-podcast and part-Q&A video, let’s join Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand as they talk about gut health and how it affects us as a whole.

Watch and listen as they discuss topics like Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO), yeast or fungal overgrowth, weight gain and weight loss, and even the link between your gut and your mood swings. So many people are diagnosed with SIBO, in fact, Dr. Justin says that almost 90% of his patients are suffering from this condition. Learn how to manage your gut health by taking the right supplements, eating the right foods, and preventing issues from wreaking havoc on your overall health. Watch this video for more info!

In this episode, we cover:

02:30   SIFO is Definitely an Issue

05:20   Conventional Treatment of Candida and SIBO

07:19   Urinary Tract Infection

10:00   Treating UTI by Just Hitting the Gut.

21:36   Top herbs for Candida Overgrowth

#202 Dr. Justin and Evan Discuss Fixing Candida and Fungal Overgrowth


Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Evan Brand take time to address another prevalent issue that they come across in their practice — fungus and yeast. They share about their personal experiences as well as more valuable information about this topic in this episode. Candida-OvergrowthListen so you can find out what diet changes to make to help get rid of fungal infections and the difference it makes when you pull out foods that are high in mycotoxins and aflatoxins. Learn what the most common symptoms people experience and the markers to look out for when checking the organic acids test. Then discover the steps to take and the additional treatments to do to really overcome any fungal or yeast infections after listening to this podcast.

In this episode, topics include:

00:20 Fungal issues and anti-fungal foods

05:27 Organic acid test markers

07:52 Symptoms

12:40 Antibiotics and steroids

17:23 Alkaline vs Acidic

20:28 Remedies

Not Just Paleo Podcast

Not Just Paleo on Google Play

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  What’s up, Evan brand? It’s Dr. J here. How you doin’ today?

Evan Brand:  Hey, I’m great. I’m excited to talk with you about fungus and yeast. Something that you and I see weekly but it’s been like very prevalent so I figured this is something we should probably address.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, fungus and yeast. That’s something we see in the practice a lot. I know you see it a lot. I actually had chronic fungal issues myself. So I’ll share some intimate stories about fungus in my life and how much of a—a difference it made in getting rid of it and overcoming it.

Evan Brand:  Wow. What happened? Did you have on toenails? Was it on your skin? How did it manifest?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I mean with fungus issues? I had like, you know, the typical like jock itch, athlete’s foot, you know, something like tinea rashes, like my whole life. Like really, really bothering me. Like I remember like scratching my toes like ‘til they would like bleed because it would just be so itchy. I never understood what the heck it was. Now obviously making diet changes, it—it really helps, right? Because pulling out the sugar, pulling out foods that are high in mycotoxins which are basically fungal toxins. They made a huge, huge difference and then also treating the actual fungus with specific herbs and getting rid of deeper infections really made a huge difference ‘til they just totally going away.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so when you see diet’s talking about anti-candida–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  Anti-fungal diets, that’s a good start, but until you get to the treatment, you dig deeper, you probably won’t resolve it 100%. Is that safe to say?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Correct, and like there’s foods that need to be addressed, need to be eradicated or pulled out to really maximize it. So for me, like cutting peanut out was a big one, that really helped.

Evan Brand:  A lot of mycotoxins–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Uh-hmm.

Evan Brand:  In peanuts?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, a lot of aflatoxin which is a—a specific type of fungal toxin and fungus is like kinda this big branch, this big umbrella. Under the fungal branch we have things like candida or yeast, right? Candida—we have different kinds of candida. We have candida albicans which is like the most common type of fungus. We have other kinds like krusei and rhodotorula and these different types of fungus that are under that umbrella. So the most common ones, the albicans, but again I don’t even go break it down to those subtypes. The question is do you have this fungal overgrowth? And there’s gonna be some level of fungus there. The question is, is there an out of balance overgrowth? If there is, let’s knock it down, number one. And number two, let’s starve it out and not eat foods that have mycotoxins in it, number one, and also number two, don’t eat excessive sugar foods that are gonna drive that fungal overgrowth.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so would that be if people are drinking coffee? Supposedly some people say that the whole mycotoxin thing on coffee is overstated. Some people say that it’s not BS. I don’t know. I—I personally don’t drink coffee, so I think it’s something to look into but I don’t know how much it will move the needle for people.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I know Dave Asprey is a big guy on the mycotoxins and a lot of his Bulletproof diet is based off of eating lower mycotoxin foods, which I think is great. I mean, I think cutting out peanuts and another big one is balsamic vinegar is a big one that’s really, really high in mycotoxins. Here’s an article over at Science Direct—see here—it’s called mycotoxins in fruits and their processed products. And it’s Analysis, occurrence and health implications. And they’re looking at different foods and the mycotoxin levels in it and balsamic vinegar is one of those things that popped up in this article. And again, so when you go out to eat, most people think, “Oh, I’m doing such a great job,” by, you know, avoiding the crappy salad dressing they have that’s loaded with Omega 6 refined vegetable oils. We’re having the olive oil and balsamic, but that’s high in sugar and also high in some mycotoxins.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and I’ve also heard of I don’t know if it’s on that article but rice being a pretty common fungal exposure, too. So I’m not sure if you’re safer by getting organic rice or not, it’s really hard to say.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That’s interesting. I’ll have to do a Ctrl-F here and see if that pops up in the column for mycotoxin, but balsamic vinegar was one of those ones that commonly came up.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, so you—you talked about—I’m gonna list off some other things here that people may notice in terms of like their fungal and yeast infections. So you talked about something like the—the top layer of the skin issues, the jock itch, athletes’ foot, ringworm is another fungal–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup.

Evan Brand:  Infection and then you got fungal nails. So people with the—you know, sometimes the yellow nails. I remember seeing the commercials as a kid, of the angry little yellow nails on the TV commercial.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yup, exactly.

Evan Brand:  And then I—I haven’t heard of this one. I didn’t know this was the actual name for it, but intertrigo yeast infection in the skin folds. So it’s talking about how people with a lot of skin folds, the yeast can grow in between the warm mor—moist areas where your skin is all folded and–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, typically you’ll see that with the gut. People that have overhanging guts in the abdomen area and that’s referred to as impetigo. Yes, that’s very common.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, and then thrush and that’s basically it. That’s the round up. So there’s a lot of different ways it can manifest. Many people think, you know, when we talk to them, I’ve heard many women say, “Well, I don’t have a yeast infection right now.” And they think that it’s only limited to the vagina but it’s not. You could basically have this yeast anywhere, internally, externally, and it will show up on the organics with the arabinose marker and then the tartaric acid. And then you and I will also see it on other markers, too. I mean, there’s like probably half a dozen or more markers that show up on the organics with yeast and that’s how you know it’s really bad when everything’s flagged.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Absolutely! Let’s break it down. So we have this yeast or fungal overgrowth. Also we have various toxins produced by these critters. So aflatoxin’s one, that we see that in peanuts. Also another thing here on aflatoxins, it’s also found in foods at specific temperature typically between 13 and 40 degrees Celsius, typically 30. And one of the big ones they mentioned was sometimes almonds, pistachios, brazil nuts, maize, rice, figs, cottonseed and spices. So you can see spices are a big one. If you look at Dave Asprey’s Bulletproof diet, certain spices such as like pepper and such–

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Was one and also people that leave their spices like above the stove where a lot of heat’s coming, right? That can really drive some of that mold, so making sure like if I do like almonds, I try to make sure they’re either soaked or like roasted a little bit and you know, I don’t do them a ton. I just try to really cut out a lot of the foods that are higher in these mycotoxin and aflatoxins, and a good Paleo diet is gonna be helpful on that. So the foods are a big driving factor and then how fungus manifests. You mentioned in the skin. It could be tinea, tinea versicolor’s a big one; it could be the impetigo or other types of rashes and then also in your nails and in your vaginal area, in your—in your groin area or on your toes.  So those are really big common areas that we look at and again we can address it 3 ways. One, we stop feeding it. Two, we stop putting it—the toxins of it in our body through food. Number three, we kill it topically. Number four, we kill it internally.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And then number five, we add back in quality probiotics and also maybe even competitive yeast like Saccharomyces boulardii to help compete for those internal niches that these fungus live in.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  That make sense?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, yeah, and something is pretty common, too, is we’ll see a yeast problem with a parasite problem. Like a lot of times if there’s candida, there’s not always, but a lot of times there may be something like Blasto show up, too. So these things are together. So we kinda killed 2 birds with one stone, when we get to the protocol portion of this, but maybe we should talk about like what people would be feeling if they have a yeast problem. I would say like the general, most common symptom that people are gonna have is just fatigue. I was pretty shocked the other day. I had a lady that I would have almost swore and—and placed a large amount of money betting that her adrenals were gonna be low but they showed back almost perfectly great on a salivary panel even, but she had an insane level of candida overgrowth on the organics and then a bunch of mitochondria issues, too. So fatigue would be a big one for yeast and then brain fog. I would say those are number two. What about you in terms of symptoms? Like what other categories people may have issue with?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so yeast can also increase things known as oxalates which can essentially poison the mitochondria or make the mitochondria malfunction. So a lot of people are like, “Oh, my gosh, I’m like super tired.” Their adrenals may look good but when it comes to energy, oxalates can really poison the mitochondria and make the mitochondria function less optimally. So when we look at energy, we kinda have this triangle of energy. We have the adrenals on one side, thyroid on the other, and the mitochondria on the other. So my analogy that I created over the years to explain these complicate concepts to patients in a really easy distinct manner is imagine you’re driving your car. The car in neutral is your thyroid. Typically your average car rest at about 700 to 1,000 RPMs in neutral. That’s like your thyroid. Hypothyroid is low RPMs. Hyper is high RPMs. That’s a neutral. Now we all know if you drive a standard and your car in low RPMs, right? What happens to the car?

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it bogs down.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It can stall out though, right?

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  But if it’s relatively higher in RPMs like you’ll see it high in RPMs like when it’s super cold out, right? Because the engine’s trying to get warmer. It goes up maybe to 1300 to 1400 RPMs that’s like hyperthyroid. But imagine that happening on a regular day where it’s not cold out.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So that’s kinda like you’re hypo–hypo—hyper–hypo thyroid and then your body or the car shifting gears from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd, 3rd to 4th, that’s like adrenal. Those are your adrenals. Healthy adrenals can shift to 2nd to 3rd, and—and 3rd to 4th and also downshift from 4th to 3rd, 2nd to 3rd, 2nd to 1st. That’s analogous to your body being able to adapt to stress, upregulate to deal with stress and downregulate to relax and go into parasympathetics. When you have adrenal dysfunction, it’s like your gears get stuck either in the high gear and you can’t downshift, so you’re wound up all day or you’re stuck in the low gear and you can’t adapt and get your energy ramped up.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So we have the stuck in neutral. It’s the thyroid, the inability to upshift or downshift is the adrenals, and then the mitochondria is nothing more than the fuel in the tank, right? The fuel in the tank. Whether it’s the oil in the engine, with the lubricant and the spark plugs and the gasoline in the tank. All the fluids in the car that make it work and function.

Evan Brand:   So you have to have that, otherwise, it don’t matter what the adrenals are doing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so connecting that back to fungus. I know I go on these little tangents here, bringing it back home, what’s the take home? Well, with fungus you can produce these things, oxalates that can really affect the mitochondria and some of the OAT test or the organic acids test, we’ll look at the oxalates which is a good marker of candida. We’ll look at the D-arabinose, which are metabolites, right? They’re indirect markers of the byproduct or the exhaust of these funguses and then we’ll also look at stool testing to look at, is there st—is there fungus in the actual stool? Whether it’s via culture or whether it’s via DNA, polymerase chain reaction DNA, or we’ll look at it clinically? Do we have a tinea rash? Is there a slight coating on the tongue? Does the woman have a history of yeast infection? Does the guy have jock itch or is there athlete’s foot history? So we’ll look at all those things. If we don’t see candida on a lab test but they have clinical indicators, what do you think trumps, Evan?

Evan Brand:  It’s gotta be the symptoms, I mean we can’t–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Clinical.

Evan Brand:  Treat in a vacuum.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Big time.

Evan Brand:  We can’t treat in a vacuum and some of the other markers, too. Like you talked about the arabinose, I mentioned the tartaric acid, some of these Furan markers like the oxoglutaric marker’s another one. That’ll be real high. So like on the first category of the organics of Great Plains at least; it’s a little bit different Genova—I’ve seen people where their entire numbers 1 through 9 is off the chart so there’s yeast, there’s fungus, it’s all together and then there’s bacterial issues, so it’s—it’s pretty common to have multiple things here. I was just gonna–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  100%.

Evan Brand:  I was gonna list off some other—some other symptoms. Dr. Mark Hyman, he had an article about hidden fungus infections making people ill. So he listed off some other symptoms and there was things like depression and chemical sensitivities, low immune system function and maybe we can talk about like what contributed to some of this. We talked about the diet but also many people have gone through rounds of antibiotics.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Bingo! That’s where I was gonna go next.

Evan Brand:  Yeah. So and then what about—what about steroids, too? How does this affect? Because this is something you’ll see in research that steroid hormone usage could contribute to that but I’m not—I don’t know the mechanism. How—how that actually happens.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  A two-fold mechanism when it comes to steroids. Number one, steroids increase blood sugar because when you take a synthetic steroid like prednisone which is typically 10x the strength of like—of a corticosteroid like cortisone or corticosteroid cream or even like Cortef, right? That’s like your natural cortisol. This is like synthetic at a much higher level and one of the big risk factors that we see with like prednisone over time is diabetes. We also see adrenal failure because it stops the internal production because it’s so high, it’s like the equivalent of being on steroids and a man having his—his testicle shrink. Alright.

Evan Brand:  Oh, man.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So it’s the equi—the equivalent of that. So number one, adrenal shutdown. Number two, that affects the immune system. Number three, it’s incredibly catabolic on the tissue, right? Osteoporosis, the big risk factor with long-term prednisone. Number four, it ups blood sugar. Go Google prednisone and diabetes, right? When you have corticosteroids that are glucocorticosteroids, the first part of that word is gluco– pertaining to blood glucose and when it take it a very pharmaceutical level that is prednisone, you’re gonna up your blood sugar.

Evan Brand:  That’s amazing. So people are going on these steroids for whatever infection or whatever issue they had and then they get diabetes and then they go on all these other meds. That’s insane to see the cascade again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It’s vicious cycle.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Because then what happens is, I had a patient just yesterday put on prednisone 50mg. Doctor pulled her off and then boom! She felt like crap for 6 months because her adrenals were just turned off.

Evan Brand:  So they basically just downregulate and the body thinks it’s stupid, “Oh, I don’t need to make hormones.” There they are. Is that—is that how it happens?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, it’s like the guy on D-ball coming off and doesn’t cycle down and there’s testicles the size of raisins and they can’t come, you know, they can’t rise to the occasion with the LH from the brain saying make some testosterone. There’s just too small.

Evan Brand:  Oh, my gosh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So–

Evan Brand:  That’s amazing. So basically, limit antibiotics.  Limit steroids and hormones unless they’re absolutely necessary.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I mean, if you needed like a steroid for like something very, very specific ideally get to the root cause, support the adrenals first, and if it’s absolutely necessary, the more specific you can get, keep it at the natural cortisol level because that’s at least more natural and then if it’s like on a skin area like do it topically right there. Don’t take it systemically, right?

Evan Brand:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So try to always address those things and bigger, is get to the root cause of why your body can’t regulate the inflammation in the first place. So getting back to—because everything is so connected. So when we talk about one thing, it’s like hitting a spider’s web. It—the whole thing shakes.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  So it’s so easy for us to get into other parts of the web, but how those corticosteroid and those meds affect fungus, it suppresses the immune system, number one, which then affects IgA which is important for kinda keeping those things in order, right? And then number two, it also drives blood sugar upward which then could feed more of these critters.

Evan Brand:  Wow. It makes sense. So you talked about repopulating the gut coming in with the probiotics. We talked about the diet that doesn’t feed the yeast and then we talked about watching out for antibiotic steroids, and then you talked about treatment a little bit using anti-fungal herbs if necessary, and then the last piece I would say is the environmental molds and fungus that people are exposed to where which believe it or not, my wife and I we got some Tempur-Pedic pillows and we had them and we loved them, and I guess we slobbered all over them or something, but we flipped over the pillows and on the bottom side of the pillows was a ton of mold that had grown. So needless to say, we trashed them. So who knows if we were waking up a little bit congested due to—due to that mold and getting exposed to it there. So whether it’s in the walls or in your pillow, I mean it’s something to consider. Your—your household exposure.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Exactly, so good air filters, you know, opening the window if you can. They’ve done studies, more fungus inside than outside, so keeping the air as open. Using a good quality air filter. I have one on my website I use by Advanced Air, very good. And then one other—a couple other things is the antibiotic use drives it because you get this rebound overgrowth, right? You create a vacuum when you’re knock out all the—the crud in your gut with antibiotics that are indiscriminate, fungus tends to grow naturally, right? Weeds always tend to grow naturally number one. And then number two, women on birth control pills. That’s gonna alkalize the urinary tract and increase chance of yeast infections, and yes, I said alkalize. A lot of people don’t realize that birth control pills are alkalizing to the urine tract and that’s actually not a good thing, alright.

Evan Brand:  You want it to be slightly acidic, you’re saying.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, I mean look at, let’s say a beneficial probiotic called acidophilus. You know what acidophilus means?

Evan Brand:  I don’t.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  It means, acid-loving. Wait, a minute!

Evan Brand:  Ahhh!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I thought acid’s bad! How does that work?

Evan Brand:  That’s funny!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right? And then wait a minute, people—they have all these stories and anecdotes of apple cider vinegar being really good for you, right?

Evan Brand:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Because that’s acetic acid.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right? And then, oh, wait. What about vitamin C, isn’t that really good for you? What’s that? Well, that’s ascorbic acid.

Evan Brand:  Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Right.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Or–

Evan Brand:  Yeah, you and I are not what—well, maybe—maybe I don’t know. I can’t remember what your thoughts but my thought’s like people drinking tons and tons of extremely alkaline water with these expensive–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Terrible.

Evan Brand:  I’m not even gonna mention the name of the company because I don’t want people to guy buy it. Yeah, so the water system’s that people are buying they’re drinking like 9.5 alkaline water. That’s not good. That can’t be good for the gut. That can’t be helping people that already have low stomach acid levels, that cannot be helping that and potentially making them worse with this whole issue here.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Especially if they’re drinking with food. I mean, I’m okay with pinching a little bit of alkalizing minerals in there, maybe a little bit of magnesium or some potassium salts and using it with some natural sea salt; there’s some electrolytes. But remember acidity, especially in the stomach is very important for digestion, and if you put things that are overly alkalizing in the body especially when you’re trying to digest it, where’s the first place it hits once it goes down your throat?

Evan Brand:  It’s gonna hit the alkaline stomach there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, exactly, which is not good. That’s gonna decrease your proteolytic enzymes and that’s gonna affect digestion. So I would say, you’re 100% right, like a Bulletproof kinda diet, which is you know, good meats, good vegetables, not too much sugar. There’s some evidence that fungus can feed on ketones. Chris Kresser has talked about this, but in my opinion with the Standard American Diet and insulin resistance, the real threat is too much sugar not too much fat and ketones.

Evan Brand:  Agreed. Totally agreed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I mean, you may be able to find a scientific article on that but clinically what are we seeing? And this–

Evan Brand:  Yeah, it’s not that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  We’re not seeing that and that may be an issue for some people. I’m not saying it’s not, but I’d say 80-90% it’s the other way around.

Evan Brand:  Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And so when I deal with fungal issues, we kinda use like a, you know, a Bulletproof, Doug Kaufmann Anti-fungal, fungal link diet where kinda Paleo-esque, cutting out the higher mycotoxin foods like the nuts, maybe the mushrooms and even the dairy, maybe some butter if you can handle it, and 1-2 servings of lower sugar fruit a day. A lot of people go too low sugar and that actually creates these fungus to go into the cyst or spore-like states where they kinda hibernate and then they don’t—they kinda live, so to speak and then they come back out later on. So a little but bit of sugar in there. Natural sugar can be helpful to kinda keep them bated to the surface.

Evan Brand:  Yeah, let’s spin—I know we only got just a couple of minutes. Let’s spin the last few minutes telling people about a couple of the remedies. Now you and I both have come across people who say, “Oh, I listen to your podcast and then I started trying to do “blank” and then I hit a wall, and then I came to you guys.” Please, if we talk about supplemental options for treatment, don’t just go willy-nilly with it on your own because there has to be a protocol in place. There has to be a specific duration, dosage, timing… like we’re very precise about this stuff so you know, I’m not saying don’t be cheap, but invest in yourself if you think you have this issue because if you just go and take some of the stuff we’ll talk about you could potentially just aggravate these issues and not get yourself better. So if we’re talking like oregano, garlic, berberine, I know there’s a bunch of other herbs that you use, too, that can be really helpful but it’s gotta be in a protocol. It’s not just 1 or 2 little things, let me just throw and—and try it and see what happens.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, so overall if we line up our testing, we have like candida antibodies, IgG, IgA, IgM. We have the organic acids testings with the—the tricarballylic acid, the oxalates and the D-arabinitol. We have the fungus in the stool DNA and culture. Those are the big ones off the bat and then from the diet standpoint, kind of a lower carb Paleo-esque, Bulletproof, Anti-fungal kinda diet’s a great starting point. And looking at the treatment side, number one, the fungus may be there from a parasitic infection. I’ll say it one more time. If you’re going after fungus and you’re not getting resolution, I consider fungus to be downstream infection from a parasitic infection or H. pylori. So if you have a deeper infection and it’s not resolving with the typical herbs Evan just recommended, I’ll list them off one more time, berberines, cloves, oil of oregano, Pau d’arco, undecylinic acid, silver—if you’re using a lot of those things and they’re not going away, you gotta look deeper at underlying infections that may be present and this is where working with someone that kinda lines up and looks at the thyroid and the adrenals first and make sure the diet’s in place, looks at the deeper infections and then goes downstream to the fungus, that tends to be best way to fix the problem in general.

Evan Brand:  Well said, and I’m textbook example. I had candida show up with the elevated arabinose on the organic acid and then I had the parasites. So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Bingo!

Evan Brand:  There we go and if I wouldn’t have the stool panel with the organics at the same time, I would have thought, “Oh, I just have a candida problem, maybe the treatment protocol would have been a little less intensive,” and then I would have never got better from parasites. So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah, and the last piece is, okay, you got fungus on the skin. You got this tinea versicolor or this fungal rash. How do we do that? Well, number one, we don’t feed it. Number two, we treat internally but number three, we also gotta treat externally and that may be using some topical oil of oregano or melaleuca or tea tree oil. Okay, that could be done on the toenail. In my clinic, we use an herbal foot fungus soak where we soak the feet 5 minutes a night in this antimicrobial soup mixed with apple cider vinegar and that’s helpful, and then we’ll also topically treat the skin with different soaps. One of my—two of my favorite brands are Purely Northwest and Artnaturals. They’re some really good soaps that are excellent and you rub it on area. Let it stay for 1-2 minutes in the shower or go brush your teeth while you’re waiting and then go and rinse it off. Very, very helpful for the topical treatment and again, some of the pharmaceuticals, like ketoconazole or fluconazole, they’re good but they’re also very stressful on the liver. So if you’re doing it, make sure you’re supporting your liver because they really, you know, the Lamisil they put a lot of stress on the liver.

Evan Brand:  Wow. Well said.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Boom!

Evan Brand:  You killed it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Well, I think we really added some good info in there today. Fungus is a huge issue. I know I see it in my female patients with chronic yeast infections. We see it in people with the chronical fungal infections on the toes especially and remember, Dr. Mark Hyman said it many times before, what are some of the other symptoms connected to fungal overgrowth? IBS, brain fog, fatigues, joint pain, and even can drive some autoimmune conditions such as multiple sclerosis and even chronic fatigue as well.

Evan Brand:  Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  And it can even drive all of the gut conditions. All of the gut conditions—IBD, IBS, it can be a really driving factor bef—behind all that.

Evan Brand:  Absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Oh, and also Hashimoto’s. The fungus is known to improve or increase antibody or thyroid destruction. So all these things are really a big factor.

Evan Brand:  Wow.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Anything you wanna add there, Evan?

Evan Brand:  I think that’s it. You know, if you suspect it, like we always mention but we can never say enough, get tested. Rule things in, rule things out and go from there. Check out Justin’s site, Justin Health and new design coming you way. It’s gonna be fresh and clean, easier to access the health information that we provide and then you could check out my site, too—Not Just Paleo.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: and if you guys want to thank us right now because we’re dropping awesome knowledge bombs. We’re giving you some anti-fungal brain candy right now, and if you wanna thank us, head over to iTunes or click just below the link if you’re listening on the podcast audio or the YouTube, click below. Click the Review button and we would love an awesome, authentic review and share with one of your friends or family so we could help them, too.

Evan Brand:  Absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Evan, it’s been great, mam. You have an awesome day.

Evan Brand:  Take care.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Bye.

Evan Brand:  Bye.