#290 Evan Brand with Robyn Openshaw on Home Toxins, EMF, & Gut Health


Today’s interview is from the Toxic Home Transformation Summit that I was part of.

Robyn Openshaw, the Green Smoothie Girl interviewed me and we had a blast!

You can register for free and get access to all the talks for 7 days. Register here.

Today We Discuss

  • Why do some people take probiotics and feel worse?

  • How do you properly test for gut issues?

  • Why does conventional medicine fail at healing gut issues?

  • Do you need to eliminate fruit to get rid of Candida overgrowth?

  • Do you need pharmaceutical drugs to successfully eradicate parasite infections?

  • EMF mitigation strategies


Robyn: Hey everyone, it’s Robyn Openshaw, and welcome back to Vibe. And I have someone I’m going to interview today. I know I always say that I’m excited about it, but I’m really excited about this because I’ve been trying for a while to get Evan Brand on the show. He’s super busy, I’ve never done a podcast episode this early — people shouldn’t even have to get out of bed this early — but it’s what he had available.

What’s exciting and interesting is he’ll actually get on the phone with you for free for 15 minutes. He’s a longtime podcaster. If you’ve been podcasting since 2012 (I always say I’m a grandma in the blogging space because I’ve been doing it for 11 years) then he’s a grandpa in the podcasting space, even though he’s really young.

He’s actually really young; he has a two-year-old. But, he’s been podcasting since 2012 and has had 7 million downloads of his show. But the thing I like about Evan is that, like many of the people we interview here, he got well and then took that knowledge base that he gained and dug even deeper, and now he helps others.

He’s a certified functional medicine practitioner — a nutritional therapist — in addition to being an author and a podcast host. He really jams out on working with people who have chronic fatigue, or obesity, or depression. And he came by his knowledge because he has or had IBS and depression issues himself.

If you work with him, he’s going to use at-home lab testing and customized supplements to help you figure out what’s wrong, and then get to the bottom of it and get well. Welcome to the show Evan Brand.

Evan: Robyn, thanks for having me.

Robyn: We’re doing this interview, and we’re using some parts of it on the Vibe podcast. But the original intent was to talk to you about how you got well, your story; and specifically talking about pathogens, talking about parasites, and bacterial infections.

People who do our 26-day detox often will get on a pathogen protocol. We really like systemic formulas: a pathogen protocol or their parasite protocol. But talk to me a little bit about how you became an expert at this: what’s your own personal story that led you to so much knowledge about this?

Evan: Sure. Well, the more and more interviews I do, the further back the timeline goes. I used to say that it was when I was in business school that I realized I was depressed. But the more I do interviews and I think back, I realize I was depressed since I was a kid.

I remember seeing other kids that were just so happy, they seemed so bubbly, so vibrant. And I wasn’t like that. Something would go good in my life and I wouldn’t get the same pleasure that someone else would get from it. It was almost like I had this governor or some sort of a cap on my neurotransmitters even as a kid.

And it makes sense, my parents divorced when I was three years old. And I think that was probably a big part of it because I’ve spoken with Dr Dietrich Klinghardt and he told me that a lot of kids have traumas before they can even remember. You’re talking one-year-olds, two-year-olds, three-year-olds. They can’t remember the stuff, but the trauma still affects them.

And that’s the first time I’ve actually mentioned this on an interview, but I think that’s probably maybe when it all started. And then it just progressed into teenage years; I wanted to drive fast and seek out things to boost the adrenaline. And then I got into business school, and my sleep schedule was messed up. I was working third shifts at UPS to try to pay for my college.

I quickly realized I didn’t want to be a bean-counter, I was going to be in accounting or marketing or something like that. But I realized that’s not what I wanted to do and I wanted to figure out my health issues instead. I dropped out of business school and moved down to Texas, and started studying nutritional therapy: trying to figure out how to use food as medicine.

And then I made huge progress, I probably got 80% better just by the diet alone. Lots of good green veggies, organic as much as possible, getting away from chemicals because we know those damage mitochondria and gut bacteria and other things.

I got a lot of progress, and then I lost a bunch of weight. I thought I had cancer; I lost about 25 pounds without trying in about six months. And many women joke and they’re like, “Oh, Evan, I’d love to have your problem.” It’s like, “Look, you don’t want to lose weight that fast not trying.”

I ended up finding out I had parasite infections. I had a couple friends who had looked at me and said, “Evan, you’ve probably got some infections. Let me see your fingernails.” And I looked at my fingernails and sure enough, I had some vertical lines, these vertical ridges on my fingernails. And that indicated some sort of malabsorption.

And then the question is, “Okay, do you take digestive enzymes?” And the answer is: maybe. But the question is, “Okay, well, why is there malabsorption? Why is there issues with your skin, your hair, your nails, your sleep, your detoxification? You’re sensitive to perfumes and fragrances and car exhaust, why is this happening?”

And long story short, it was the gut bugs for me. I had a yeast overgrowth, I had parasite infections, bacterial infections. I had adrenal problems, thyroid problems. I had mycoplasma pneumoniae and a couple other infections from tick bites. I had the full whammy. And all of that was compounded by me moving to Texas, leaving my family behind, working for a supplement company, getting married — that’s a stress, but it’s a good stress, having a kid.

All those things add up in your stress bucket. For me, the bucket was full and it overflowed. And then finally, I realized, “Okay, food as medicine is great, but you’ve got to have functional medicine.” That’s when I took as many functional medicine courses as I could without being a medical doctor and then got certified.

Now, I’ve helped and tested over 2,000 people. And what I found is that, look, what happened to me is not rare, it’s actually very common. In fact, 95% of the people that I’ve tested using urine organic acids testing have a candida overgrowth, just like me, due to antibiotics and sugar in the diet and other things. And I’d say 60 to 70% of the people, they have infections of some sort, whether it’s bacterial.

People throw around the term SIBO a lot, Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth. I don’t really like that term because it doesn’t tell you what the species of bacteria are, because when you’re working with a patient with autoimmune disease, it’s more important to know the species, like Klebsiella pneumoniae. That’s a common form of Hashimoto’s. Prevotella copri is a common bacterial infection that triggers rheumatoid arthritis. To me, it’s more important to know the species. That way, you can identify what’s the possible autoimmune disease rather than just say, “Hey, it’s SIBO, here’s a generic SIBO protocol.” I don’t like to do that.

Long story short, I fixed all those issues and I’m better than ever. Now, I just told you off-air, my daughter pushed herself off the table and fell out of her high chair, and busted her head on the floor and had a concussion and was throwing up and all that. That was a stress for me. And now, I’m doing all the tools I can to try to recover her.

Life is unpredictable, but I think if you want to make it in the modern world in the 21st century, you’ve got to be adaptable, whether that’s using adaptogenic herbs, whether that’s doing meditation and yoga and doing retreats and setting time for yourself, getting energy vampires out of your life, removing toxic people from your life, toxic things from your home, which I know we’ll talk about a bit. To me, this is the foundation. You must have these pillars in place to exist and thrive in the 21st century.

Robyn: When you’ve had to address all those different pillars, you’ve had to, I’m sure, learn how to manage the stress because stuff like that is going to happen. If you have kids, you’re going to have one fall out of the highchair and bang her head. You cannot be watching and catching her every second. That’s one of the most terrible realizations of being a parent, I think, is the trouble they’re going to get themselves into that you then have to help them, get them out of the jam. But learning to manage those stresses and like you said, be adaptable is part of it.

I’m glad to hear your story, and I’m sorry that you went through all that. But I think you’ll relate to when I fixed my own health, and I was obese and had 21 different diagnosed diseases and was on five different drugs, and my first child was dying — in and out of hospitals, emergency rooms, on all kinds of steroids, antibiotics, bronchodilators every four hours.

The process of turning that around, I really thought it was about him, and then I thought is about me and him. And then I thought it was about our family, and then I thought it was about our neighborhood because I started having classes and teaching people stuff and they started doing it. And now, I see that those things that I learned were for so many more people that I have the great honor to influence.

And I think you’re the same, and you’re young. I was having my experience in my 20s too and it changed me forever. And just bad habits I had back then, I’ll never go back to because I don’t want to pay the price that I was paying back then.

Evan: I know. It’s not even worth it. You’ll go out to social events and people will make fun of you for your dietary choices, it’s like, “Oh, just eat the bread or just eat this.” And it’s like, I don’t seek pleasure from food anymore in the way, not a hedonistic way. I still love everything I eat, food is delicious, you can make amazing food.

Food can taste good and be good for you. But a lot of people tease us for the things that we’ve done. I’m sure you’ve had people make fun of you for the choices you’ve made. And I’ve had people say, “Oh, Evan, you’re trying to live in a bubble.” And it’s like, “Look, glyphosate is bad news. If I can avoid it, I’m not going to use it on my yard, I’m not going to put it in my food, I’m going to stay away.”

I don’t understand why trying to be an optimal person should get shunned. I don’t know if it’s jealousy or envy or what it is. But I think ultimately people have to find their why, I think that’s what makes me a better practitioner too is because many people come to me after they’ve been to conventional doctors, and I had all the prescription pads written for myself too (I had acid blocking medications and antidepressants and all sorts of other drugs prescribed).

I never took them, but many people say, “Look, these people are recommending things they’ve never done.” And I tell people, they’ll ask me about, “Hey, Evan, what do you think about this supplement?” And if I haven’t taken it, I’m going to tell them, “Look, I haven’t taken it, I don’t know. It looks pretty good, but I haven’t taken it.”

I don’t like to do things with people that I haven’t done myself. I don’t know where that drive comes from, but I’ve been in the trenches and I want to help people get out of the trenches. You gave me goosebumps telling me about you thought it was about your kids and then you and then your neighborhood because this really is a whole, it’s a planetary issue.

You have to help people one at a time though, that’s the thing. And what do they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. We’re leading you guys to the water, but it’s up to you when you’re ready to drink. And I just want to say a quick note about that, which is don’t wait until you hit rock bottom before you try to start making changes because people like Robyn and I can help dig you out of the hole, but it’s so much easier if you just notice something is off and then you want to start fixing it.

Let’s say you’ve got some depression or some anxiety or you had a panic attack or you’ve got mood swings or PMS or a little bit of issues with sleep or energy problems or sugar cravings or brain fog or joint pain, let’s not wait until that’s to a catastrophic level where you’re dialing the emergency room and you’re getting in for urgent care. Let’s try to figure out, okay, something’s not right.

Let’s figure out what’s going on under the hood, let’s investigate these body systems. Let’s look at the adrenals, let’s look at thyroid, let’s look at mitochondrial function and liver function and neurotransmitters. And let’s look for fungus and yeast and parasites because for me, I had no choice. Like I said, I thought I had cancer. I literally went from 160 pounds, I’m about 5’10”, 5’11”, and I went down to about 130 pounds. That’s almost 30 pounds without trying. I almost looked like a concentration camp victim. I was so skinny people were asking, “Evan, are you okay? What’s wrong, what’s wrong?”

And the answer for a long time was I don’t know, I don’t know what’s wrong. Don’t do what I did, I had to do it out of choice plus necessity because I was so scared. But it’s much better to do this out of optimism rather than fear. If you’re in a place of fear, it’s really tough.

Robyn: Yeah. I think you are probably having the same experience I am where it’s a huge win if we get any kind of pattern interrupt on these lifestyle changes that we’re teaching. And I think it’s important that we be friends, all of us out here in the wellness space. And I consider part of my job listening to your podcast because I learn something from every episode.

I’m a huge Evan Brand show listener, and I learn something new in every episode. And I feel like that’s my continuing ed and it keeps me current, all the reading that I do. If I’m working out, I promise you, I’m listening to a podcast and I’m learning something about health and wellness. And sometimes I don’t agree with what I’m reading because it conflicts with something that I think is more evidence-based. But I like to always have those questions going in my head.

You and I will probably get really excited if we can get access to a mom before she has gone over the waterfall, before her kids have gone over the waterfall, and she starts making changes before the catastrophe. That’s when it feels like a big win, although, I’m perfectly happy to start with someone wherever they are. A dietary change, like you said, it’ll do 80% of it usually.

Evan: Yeah. Well, I’m so glad you brought up the moms too. I don’t really market myself as a pediatric functional medicine guy, but I’ve had to gradually evolve into that just because a lot of these doctors that are in the naturopathic field, they’ll just throw a homeopathic remedy or something at a child and that’s it. And it’s like, okay, well, the kid obviously has food intolerances and asthma and these other issues for a reason. It’s not a deficiency of homeopathic remedies just like it’s not a deficiency of antibiotics or something else. There’s a root cause.

I’ve had to learn this the hard way that a lot of these infections are passed throughout the family. You brought up kids, we’ll just go down this avenue for a minute if that’s okay, which is that I’m seeing two-year-olds and three-year-olds and four-year-olds and five-year-olds with many parasites.

I had a mom with two kids, they were five years old each. And she took the kids out of school because they were about to get kicked out of school due to their attitude problems. And we ran their stool tests, and they showed up about 30 different infections between the two twins. We’re talking five parasites each, seven different species of bacterial overgrowth, yeast, fungus, inflammation off-the-charts.

I believe that if we can start kids young — and that includes even prenatal stuff for moms — if we can make sure that moms are healthy before they get pregnant, that’s a goal. And the funny thing is too, I’ll work on a parasite protocol with a lady who wants to get pregnant and then all of a sudden she emails me, “Hey, Evan, I’m pregnant.” And I was like, “Oops, I forgot to tell you everything we do increases fertility.”

You’ve got all these infertility moms out there that are struggling and they’re paying 10 and $15,000 for the IVF treatment. But if you just fix the body, the body is amazing. You just have to help it fix itself and then all of a sudden, these issues just go away.

Robyn: Yeah. I don’t think people’s minds goes to parasite or a bacterial infection first unless they’re sick and they have flu-like symptoms. You’ve talked about ridges on your fingernails, and you had rapid weight loss. Those are kind of the more obvious ones, but what symptom should people be looking for? Because for toxic home transformation, for the summit, what I want you to go deep on is pathogens.

How do we know that we have? Obviously lab testing, but how do we even start with, “Oh, this symptom may be connected to a parasite”? I remember reading in John Robbins’ book, Diet for a New America, or maybe it’s The Food Revolution, literally 25 years ago when I started my thing that a cubic inch of red meat has a thousand larvae in it. I quit eating red meat and pork, I’ll never eat pork again 25 years ago, and a lot of animal products.

But I think people think that the answer is to eat sterilized food and never eat any vegetables and fruits. And vegetables and fruits can have parasites. But to me, that’s not at all the answer. Talk about some common symptoms that might make somebody wonder, “Oh, I wonder if I have this underlying chronic infection that’s a bacterial or viral or a parasite.” Talk a little bit about that and then we’ll go deeper.

Evan: Sure. People may say I’m biased because that’s what I work on so much, but I would say it’s almost anything and everything that’s not right with you. As I mentioned, energy problems.

It could be energy swings: one day you may feel good and then the next day you feel terrible and there’s no correlation or major change in lifestyle. You’re just drained for some reason. You’re waking up not feeling rested, like you’ve got to go for that coffee — imagining a day without coffee is bad or stressful. That’s something that’s not right. And I’ll explain a little bit of the mechanism just for the listeners and then we’ll kind of dive back into symptoms.

The mechanism of all this is that it’s multiple. These infections, they’re stealing your nutrients because there’s competition. Just like when we’re talking about Lyme disease and then the co-infections like your Bartonella and your Babesia, et cetera.

These things need amino acids to thrive. Your dietary protein, whether that’s plant proteins, whether that’s animal proteins, whatever your source, those proteins are supposed to get broken down into amino acids and then those amino acids then go to manufacture neurotransmitters and hormones and make all of our body systems run, feed the mitochondria, et cetera.

And when you have these infections, think of it as if you’re a gardener: you may have one of those little hose diverters where the hose can go two ways and there’s a little knob in the center. It’s almost like that knob is getting stuck in the center. Some of the water flow is going to this other direction, which is the bugs. And then some of your water flow is making it to your garden to nourish you.

When that happens, that’s when energy levels go down. That’s when sleep gets affected because you have to have certain neurotransmitters, like tryptophan to make serotonin, which then combined with vitamin B6 makes melatonin, which isn’t just important for sleep: melatonin is one of the most potent antioxidant hormones that fights cancer, which is why there’s research on night shift nurses. Type in night shift nurses breast cancer into PubMed, you’ll see that women who work night shift as a nurse, they’re 50% more likely to develop breast cancer than someone working day shift. And it’s due to the melatonin being disrupted because they’re under artificial light at night and they’re not obeying the laws of sunlight, which is get up with the sun and go to bed with the sun.

Back to symptoms though: this could be joint pain, it could be migrating, or it may be stagnant. It could be digestive issues, it could be bloating, it could be heartburn, which would likely indicate like an H, pylori infection (forgot to mention that; I had H. pylori as well). H. pylori damages the parietal cells of your gut; these are the cells that make stomach acid.

If you’re getting heartburn, you’re getting bloating, burping, indigestion, if you have rosacea, if you have eczema, you have dermatitis, you’ve got issues with your scalp, you’ve got maybe the keratosis pilaris on the back of your triceps, you’ve got little bumps, maybe you’ve just got some random spots of dry or flaky skin somewhere else. Look, it’s not a deficiency of topical steroids that your dermatologist is going to give you, it’s not.

My wife was covered in hives at one point, she had bumps all over her body. It turned out not only was she allergic to all the skin care products she was using, but she had some infections as well. We had to treat those with herbs. What else symptom-wise? Robyn, we could go on and on, and on.

I think mood issues too, depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety. I had a mom a few weeks ago, I believe her son was 9 years old, maybe 10. She lives in New Jersey and they take the subway to school, they get on the subway together. And the mom told me that the kid tripped on the subway when he was walking on and tripped. And he told his mom, “You know what, I’d rather just kill myself.” I said, “Whoa, how long has he been saying that?” And she said, “Oh, he’s been saying suicidal stuff for several years.”

And sure enough, we get his gut test back and the kid has more infections than I had. I can’t say 100% this causes this, but these are just correlations that you see in the clinic that science is not going to test. It’s like, who’s going to do the double-blind placebo study, give a bunch of people a Giardia parasite infection, and then see who of those people get suicidal thoughts or not. There’s some stuff that we have to depend on, clinical pearls versus waiting on the research, same thing with passing infections between each other.

Kind of to answer your question in a longer form: you couples, I see a lot of couples. And the literature is not 100% clear on this, but 90% of the time, the partner has the same infections or similar infections because you can pass things like H. pylori, the bacteria through saliva, oral sex, kissing, intercourse. The literature is not clear because who’s going to do that study. This is stuff you just have to figure out.

Now, 10% of the time, the wife may show up with an infection and the husband doesn’t have it. But I tell you more often than not, 9 times out of 10, you’ve got to come in and support the whole family. And then this is how the babies get infected too; is the mom maybe feeding the kid from her fork, “Hey, baby, try this, try a bite of this, try a bite of that.” And the bug gets passed (when I say bug, this is microscopic. You’re not going to see it crawling). The mom gives the baby the food, the fork or the spoon or the drink, or they share the cup, and then the H. pylori gets passed and then the kid ends up with reflux and then the pediatric doc puts them on an acid blocker and then they develop skin issues because they’re not digesting their food anymore.

The whole cascade, the whole domino effect can happen just from a minor infection, which is why I talk about it so much like a broken record, but it’s just because I see it so often.

Robyn: Blood tests: you can order them, you can work with people remotely. Telemedicine has probably really been helpful to people who can work with somebody like you, even though you’re in Kentucky. Talk about the blood test and what you learn, and then what the treatment looks like once you figure out specifically what pathogens someone’s actually contending with.

Evan: Sure. Everything we’ve discussed so far, you can find those with two different tests. One is the organic acids panel, this is an at-home urine test. You wake up or you have the kid wake up, you collect first morning’s urine, you get that back to the lab.

The second one is the stool panel; I use one called a GI map which is a DNA PCR based test. Conventional docs and gastroenterologist, what they use is called antigen-based testing, or they use microscopy, which is where they have a human looking at the poop. And obviously, human error is a big issue; they miss infections very, very often. There’s a high, high, high rate of false negatives. This is why I use those tests because they’re about a thousand times more sensitive than what a conventional test will look at.

I do run some blood just depending on the case. I don’t run it always, but I do run it a lot more because I am seeing, unfortunately, so many people with Hashimoto’s and other autoimmune diseases that we just have to run blood to check and see, “Okay, are the antibodies rising; are the antibodies coming down?” The good thing is the blood work generally goes in a positive direction once you work on the gut. I may just go based on symptoms and I may not do blood right away. I do blood for Lyme and for testing the co-infections and all that stuff too, looking for inflammation markers. But I’d say 90% of the issues that people face, you can really solve and investigate those issues with saliva, stool and urine. And then if you can’t or you start to spin your wheels, you can get blood work and look deeper.

But once again, this is going to be a custom blood panel, this is not going to be just a standard CBC because, unless you’re at a disease level, there’s not much that changes. There’s little minor things that change; white blood cell count tends to drop if you have a chronic infection. You may see ferritin dropping, which is a common issue with women that are losing a lot of hair or they can’t catch their breath.

Ferritin can go low, which is an iron storage protein. That gets affected by parasites. A lot of women, they’ll go on an iron supplement. They’re like, “Evan, why is it my ferritin or my iron coming back up? Why am I so anemic?” And it’s like, “Well, you’ve probably got a gut bug, look at your white blood cells, they’re really low, which would indicate chronic infection and a leaky gut situation going on.”

The blood does fill in a lot of the blanks. I think of it as kind of the glue for the puzzle. The functional medicine labs are the big pieces and then the blood is the glue that kind of seals the picture together.

Robyn: Are there are some specific parasites or infections that you’re seeing a lot of? When you’re testing blood of your clients are there somewhere you can say 80% of the people I get tested have this or 60% have that? Just so that someone who’s listening and has thought, “Gosh, I have not really thought much about having infections or parasites.”

I travel internationally a lot; I take my readers to Switzerland every June. I’ll be there for three weeks this June and it’s a clinic of biological medicine. You should come with us, it’s amazing and you could-

Evan: It sounds fun.

Robyn: Yeah. You should sit in, you should do rounds with them and sit in with patients. They don’t have the HIPPA laws there; they let our practitioners that we take sit in on any patient meetings if the patient is okay with it. But they have looked at my blood and year after year what’s in my blood is different. And they have said there’s parasites here and they have said there’s a bacterial infection here. And they can tell by what my white blood cells are doing how many white blood cells I have and also structures in my live blood analysis.

Talk about what you see a lot in children and adults.

Evan: Yeah, sure. I mentioned the candida; I’m doing a whole summit on it because it’s huge. I was going to call it the Infection Summit, but then I thought, well, if people hear infection, they’re going to think, “I don’t have an infection,” and then they’re not going to pay attention.

Like I said, I’ve tested over 2,000 people and here’s some statistics. Just a disclaimer, I may be biased because people are coming to me with health symptoms. No one’s coming and saying, “Evan, I feel 100% amazing, I just want to get checked out.” There are those people. And guess what, those people even show up with infections. They thought they felt amazing, we fix something and then they feel even more amazing. There is that small percentage.

But most people have an issue; they’ve been to practitioners before they get to me. That disclaimer stated 90 to 95% of the 2,000 people have candida overgrowth, meaning it’s off the charts: they’re doing what’s called auto-intoxication syndrome where the aldehyde and basically an alcohol-like compound is produced from the yeast, and it’s making the person drunk, causing brain fog. Some people think they have dementia and Alzheimer’s because their brain is so bad, but it’s just Candida. That’s the biggest thing I see.

Robyn: 90 to 95%.

Evan: 90 to 95%. If I don’t see a candida overgrowth, I’m like, “Whoa, that’s amazing. Is this accurate? Do we need to retest? What the heck’s going on, this is amazing.”

Robyn: I realize this is what your whole summit is about. We don’t want to go too far sideways on candida, but I think a lot of people are curious about it and I think you’re going to get really good attendance at your summit because a lot of people have been diagnosed with candida overgrowth, probably just about everybody who’s been on antibiotic really ever. People who eat very much sugar and flour — processed food — they’re probably really, really likely to have it.

What’s the diet? I always say a candida-starvation diet is one of the hardest diets. What do they eat? I want to hear it from you because there’s people who are like, they’re taken off of all fruits, all starchy vegetables. Basically, they’re eating greens, some vegetables and meat. And I’m a plant-based eater, I would probably die on that diet with that much meat. But I think that a lot of the plant foods are going to feed that candida, though it might be a healthy diet for a healthy person, but not honestly someone with candida. Talk about the diet for just a minute.

Evan: Yeah. The things that I really pull out are the fermented stuff at least just temporarily. Kombucha is a big no-no at least temporarily because the woman that I saw who had the biggest candida I’ve ever seen, the biggest candida overgrowth, meaning that her arabinose and her tartaric acid, these are markers that you measure on the OAT test. Her levels were hundreds of times higher than normal and she looked like she was nine months pregnant after she ate anything. She ate a walnut and her stomach would blow up. She was drinking five kombuchas a day. That’s crazy. Now, kombucha has some benefits, but there is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Same with your fermented.

Robyn: I think that you probably crave the kombucha and other sweet foods if you have Candida because you’ve literally got billions of microbes screaming for the food they want, which is sugar. People with candida, their candida is out of control, their sugar cravings have got to make them feel completely insane. And Evan, just so you know, the worst I’ve ever seen, it’s very similar.

It was a guy and he was at the ashram where I go to water fast once a year. And he was there for a 21-day water fast. And I was there with him for nine days and we stayed in the same building. Everybody shares one bathroom, it’s super one-star. But it’s always an adventure. And he was there to starve out the candida. And I do want to say, I thought it was pretty interesting; he was successful, he went home. He had been a meth addict, no, heroin addict in and out of hospitals, got a MRSA infection in the hospital. He was on a month of antibiotics and anything at all that he ate, anything, he swelled up. I have a picture of it, it’s in one of my video master classes. He gave me permission. His gut would swell. He was a thin guy, he was like 6’3″ thin guy, fit guy, looked eight months pregnant, fully eight months pregnant if he ate just any food at all. Anyways, a water fast is not for everyone. But he was serious about it; he was miserable enough and he did it. And it worked.

Evan: Gosh, I believe it. And you and I were texting back and forth about my issues and I told you when I got my wisdom teeth and my 12 year molars extracted; unfortunately, I did get put on antibiotics and did it out of fear. And that’s probably a big downturn in my whole candida journey. But back to some of the stuff we were talking about-

Robyn: The diet, candida diet.

Evan: Yes. That lady, she was doing a ton of Kombucha, but she was doing the other fermenteds too. Now, a lot of people are promoting fermented foods like sauerkraut and kimchi and things like that, which I do believe have value. And a lot of people talk about probiotics.

Now, the funny thing is in the health space, a lot of us are do-it-yourselfers. But that can be a downfall sometimes, and then you build up what I call the supplement graveyard, which is where you’ve got a whole pantry of stuff that you’re not really taking anymore because you heard it would help or work so you bought it, and you tried it, and you didn’t do much with it. And I want to prevent people from building up a bigger supplement graveyard because, yes, probiotics can be good, yes, kombucha can be good, yes, fermenteds can be good. But what I found is, sometimes, it’s adding gasoline to the fire.

Before you throw in all these beneficial fermented things, you may need to come in and clean up the fire first — before you come in and reinoculate with the good guys. This is why some people, including myself, take probiotics and they feel terrible. They get worse bloating, they get more fatigue, they get more skin issues. And it’s because you’ve got to clear things out.

It’s kind of like if you were to use a garden analogy. If the garden is just covered in weeds and you just come in and throw a ton of fertilizer, everything’s going to grow better. That’s including the bad guy. You may need to come in, let’s pick out the weeds first. And how I do that, is systemically with herbs once you knock out the bugs, then you can come back in and go ahead and reseed and add your probiotics in later. But the order of operations is something that people mess up.

Now, I don’t believe you need to cut out all fruit. In fact, I ate berries pretty much the whole time during my parasite and candida protocol and I did just fine. I think if you’re not getting crazy with it, you’re keeping it low glycemic, you’re doing your blackberries or blueberries or raspberries, make more organic please, you should be okay.

Now, am I going to say go for like mangoes and pineapples and stuff like that? Probably not. I think it’s a bad idea, especially the dried fruits. A lot of women tell me their favorite snack is dried mango strips, it’s like, “Whoa, that’s probably a no-no.” Fruit snack, stuff like that, let’s keep it real food.

I’m a huge fan of smoothies because many people are juicing, but with juicing you’re removing the fiber. Then you’re just creating a massive blood sugar spike, and that’s affecting the pancreas. And then that affects the adrenals, and then the liver gets involved.

I would just say go for smoothies over juicing, and just throw in a couple berries and maybe you throw in some coconut or some avocado, some pumpkin seeds, have some good fat in there. Throw in your greens with it, and stick with that. But do I believe that you have to cut out all carbs, all fruits, all sugars? I don’t. I’ve seen enough success with just having people follow a lower sugar, lower fruit diet, low glycemic. And then as long as you’re doing the herbs consistently, within six or eight weeks, you can take care of it.

Robyn: Do you want to talk in any more detail about testing and treating infections in the gut?

Evan: Yeah, sure. I’ll just mention get the organic acids test if you’re working with a functional medicine practitioner. Just ask them; I’m sure they’re going to run it anyway, but not everyone knows how to read it. A lot of people run testing now because it makes them sound smart, which is cool. Testing is becoming trendy, that’s why you’ve got like 23andMe. They have 23andMe at Walgreens now, did you know that?

Robyn: No.

Evan: Yeah. I went to Walgreens and they had 23andMe testing. I’m like, “Holy smokes, genetic testing at Walgreens. Who would have thought?” Testing is becoming trendy, which is great. I’m glad that awareness is rising. But just because somebody knows how to run a test doesn’t mean they know how to make a protocol based on it.

Make sure that whatever practitioner you’re seeking out is putting out regular content, videos, podcast, audio, blogs, something because if they have a really nice smile and super white teeth and all that, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re going to get you better. And I tell people, “Look, I’m not a medical doctor. I’ve had to figure this stuff out the hard way and take as much training and education and seek out mentors that are smarter than me because I don’t want to be perceived as a guru. I just want to be somebody who’s figured out enough stuff to help people.” That’s my little disclaimer about practitioners.

But get yourself an organic acids test; get yourself a GI Maps tool test and run it. You may spend 600 to 1,000 bucks to get a good functional medicine workup on yourself. But look, a diabetes medication is $1,000 a month after insurance. If you had a massive infection affecting blood sugar that was cranking up your A1C and affecting your pancreas and such, it’s like, “Man, what if we could prevent you from getting diabetes, or some other issue where you’ve got to be on pharmaceuticals, and we could find it now?” Just get yourself tested, that’s the message.

And then in terms of treatment, there’s websites dedicated to shaming herbs and saying that specifically for the infections —

(I never answered the rest of your question, let me briefly answer it. Other infections I see, Blastocystis hominis, very, very common parasite. H. pylori, very, very common bacterial infection. Dientamoeba fragilis, very, very common parasite. Cyclospora, that’s a waterborne parasite, Giardia Cryptosporidium. I see these every single day, I’ve got clients after this interview. I’ll probably see those on their labs today)

— the good thing is herbs can successfully treat these. You’ve got medical docs making website saying it’s a myth, herbs are BS, it’s pseudoscience. “You can’t get rid of parasites without anti-parasitic drugs”, not true. Look at my lab results before and after, look at the thousands of lab results before and after. I’ve got proof: here’s test A because I like data, I like science. Here’s test B, and here’s the protocol we use — no pharmaceuticals because I can’t prescribe them, and I wouldn’t if I could — and they’re gone. Yes, don’t get discouraged if you’ve been told that you can’t treat these things naturally, that’s wrong.

Robyn: Okay. What you talked about, kissing, that every time you kiss someone, you’re kind of taking on their entire toxic body burden probably. I probably should share this with my two college daughters.

Evan: Tell them, absolutely.

Robyn: Limit your partnerships, that’s easy right there.

Evan: Investigate your partner’s too. I work with a lot of teenagers too, because a lot of moms come with teenagers having mood issues, or they can’t focus in school. And the teenager always gets embarrassed because I’m like, “Okay, do you have a boyfriend?” And it’s like, “Okay, are you sexually active with that boyfriend?” They’re like, “Yep.” I’m like, “Okay, let’s get him tested.” And then they come back with infections and then we’re like, “Okay, this is why mom spent 500 bucks on herbs.”

We eradicated the H. pylori, but then three months later you’re emailing me again, “Hey, she’s had a flare-up, her symptoms are back.” And then I say, “Are you still with the same boyfriend? Okay, you’re still the same guy. Okay, good, let’s test him.” And then boom, they had it. Then we go and we give a protocol for the boyfriend, then they’re both cleared out; then they can stay better.

And same thing with pets, a lot of people playing with their dog toys and stuff like whipworm. I’ve been seeing a lot of whipworm lately, which is about a two inch worm. The CDC says they lay between 2 and 20,000 eggs a day. If the dog has whipworm, you can test for it on a client. Not a dog –maybe you could put a dog’s poop and test it. Why couldn’t you? — but I’m testing adults, not dogs, or humans — not dogs.

But I found that people that have dogs, it takes them longer to get rid of worms. I’m guessing, I can’t prove this, but what I’m guessing is that maybe if the dog has the infection, maybe some fecal oral transmission is happening and that the eggs are maybe on the dog toy and then you throw the dog toy and then you’re like, “Oh, my nose itches,” or, “oh, I got to pick my teeth.” And then maybe you ingest a small microscopic egg and then that starts the whole life cycle all over again. Sometimes I think you need to be treating your pets too.

Robyn: Interesting. You have mentioned that relationships play into gut health; is it more than just that? The fact that you’re actually exchanging microbes affects your infection rate, affects your immune system, your relationships. Have we said everything we want to say there?

Evan: I would add one more comment. I got more emails from a YouTube video I did on energy vampires than any other video. People are like, “Evan, nobody’s talking about this.” It’s like, well, energy vampires are real. I think from the relationship aspect, if you’ve got a bad husband or a bad boss or a bad friend or somebody who’s disrespecting you, or negatively affecting your health.

And that’s the hard part because sometimes it is your partner and you’ve got to … I’m not a therapist with emotions but I’ve learned enough to try to help people walk through these situations. Some people have to go through divorces to heal. Some people have to go through breakups to heal, some people have to quit their job or get a new boss or get a new best friend to heal because there are emotional roadblocks that do affect health. We know now with the whole ACE questionnaire, the Adverse Childhood Experiences and traumas, that these do affect the immune system.

And if your immune system is constantly suppressed because you’re getting verbally abused, physically abuse, et cetera, how can you heal? All the leaky gut supplements in the world will not heal you if you’ve got a bad relationship. I just encourage people don’t be afraid. And if you do need to cut someone out of your life, if you tried to mitigate the issues and you can’t, unfortunately, you may have to cut them out. And that’s what I’ve had to do, I’ve had to systemically remove people.

Systematically is what I meant to say, systematically remove people because you can feel it. You come into the room and something happens. Your gut hurts, or you have anxiety, or you have heart palpitations, or you start to panic. You get a little bit shaky when you’re around that person. That’s a sign that something’s up. Try to fix it. And if you can’t, you might have to part ways. I hate to say that, but it’s a reality.

Robyn: I’ll tell you, I absolutely agree with you. And when I talk about this issue — because I’m a psychotherapist by background — when I talk about this issue, I get real actual positives back from people, but also some negatives because they always come back with, “I can’t.” They say “my boss is killing me” or “this coworker is killing me” or “my marriage is killing me” and I’m like “Well…”

At the risk of sounding like, “hey, this is easy for me to say,” I was a divorced person myself. I was married for 20 years. Easy for me to say, “Well, get out of the relationship.” But, I actually think there are some issues that people should work through in their marriages. 10 years ago they were completely miserable and didn’t think they can fix it, and now they’re completely happy. And I believe that there are many situations like that. But I think we all have to get over the idea that relationships sometimes have permanence… Everybody who walks in the room, we don’t have to attach to them for life.

And it’s okay to have a limited relationship, and it’s okay to have a relationship that has pretty firm boundaries. One of the people who raised me, I have a pretty thick 10-foot brick wall to that person. They’re allowed if there’s a party at my house, that’s fine. But I need the wall. I have a relationship with them, but the boundaries have to be maintained.

I feel like sometimes we have to acknowledge that a relationship has a season, and that it was there to teach us something. We had some kind of growth that happened in the crucible of that relationship. It does not mean we have to keep that relationship for life, or we fall into this dark depression and we cannot live without this one person. I don’t believe that that’s the case.

So, I agree with you; I’m glad you’re talking about that because I think getting rid of the toxic relationships in my life, or managing them when it comes to someone that I’m linked to for life by biology, is as significant in my own healing, and coming to a place where I love my life and I’m happy and healthy. I think that getting rid of those toxic relationships has been as significant in my healing as changing my diet to be a whole foods, mostly organic plant based diet has been, I really do.

Evan: Oh, God, I believe it. I think it could even be more powerful. I can’t tell you how many people are like, “Evan, I do yoga three times a week, I eat 100% organic, I eat a ton of plants, I meditate, I go to the beach. I feel terrible, my life sucks, I hate everything, I’m depressed.” “How’s your relationship?” “Oh, I haven’t had sex with my husband in 10 years. He sleeps on the couch, I sleep in a separate bedroom. We don’t speak to each other, we just live in the same house.” It’s like, “Whoa, extra yoga is not going to fix that, I’m sorry.”

Part of me thinks, man I might just do nothing but relationship work with people. I don’t have a psychotherapy background to do that. What you and I are talking about here is so huge, that you can’t go to Amazon or Whole Foods and buy some miracle supplement that’s going to out-supplement this issue. You have to face this.

And I’m sorry, it’s not going to be easy, but you have to do it. And, look we’ve been through some crazy stuff in my life/relationship stuff. And you will get through it, that’s the cool thing about humans is we’re pretty resilient. But that’s a chronic stress in that stress bucket. That’s the last thing I’ll say about it.

Robyn: Yeah. Just because you’re used to it doesn’t mean that you’re fine.

Evan: Agreed. And it’s a hole in the bucket. It’s like, okay, you throw in the yoga, the meditation, the retreats, the travel, the this, the that. That it’s like, okay, cool, but look at that big hole in the bucket. I’m sorry that energy bucket can’t fill up if you’ve got that big hole. That thing has to be patched. And if it can’t be patched, you’ve got to replace the bucket.

Robyn: Yeah. And I think that you would be wise to learn some good modalities to help people with their relationships, because I think you’re finding the same thing that I am. The last 11 years as GreenSmoothieGirl online and with 14 of the 15 books that I wrote, I’m helping people with their nutrition. But like you, I meet people who are like, they’re doing everything right, they’re probably eating a healthier diet than I do. And then this last book, my 15th book I talk about those things.

Vibe is talking about how even in psychotherapy, there is stuff we’re missing. All these energetic connections with people. I have a chapter in the book on Tantra and reconnecting sexually. So many relationships are broken because of the weird things that we do that disconnects, porn being just one of them, and how we are so very disconnected in this culture. Psychotherapists aren’t looking at the connection between what people eat and how they show up in their relationships, but I think there’s a big connection there. I think there’s an enormous connection there.

Evan: I agree. I’ll make a brief comment. It’s always interesting you have these specialists like you’ve got the kidney specialist, the liver specialist, the heart specialist, the brain specialist. It’s like, okay, I think specialty is good and important, but I’m predicting within the next 20 years that everything, just like you mentioned, all of us and the health space need to be together like a spider web.

I’m hoping that every branch of medicine starts to just merge into one conglomerate because we’re realizing over and over again that the science is clear: there’s no separation between mind and gut. There’s no separation between mind and body, there’s no separation between physical energy and emotional energy and vibrations coming from a person and how those vibrations affect you. I hope everything is going to have a mass convergence. And I don’t know exactly when or how that will manifest, but I’m putting that out to the universe. Let’s hope it happens.

Robyn: Yeah. I think one thing that — I’ll check this out with you and see if you agree with it — but I think so many people they come to us and they want the easiest fix, and they usually want to supplement.

Supplements can do a lot of work. And you work with these adaptogenic herbs and you work with things that actually sort of remove the food source from the bacteria or actually kill the parasite. And there are plant-based supplements that do that and they are evidence-based. And I’ve seen amazing things happen from using plant-based medicine. At the clinic in Switzerland, they use no drugs. The two medical doctors that run the place, they believe in the creed they were charged with, which is first, do no harm. They’re not going to go straight to a pharmaceutical and nuke the crap out of the microbiome. They’re going to use something that works with the body’s adaptive systems.

But anyway, people come to us and they want to supplement or they want to change their diet, but they don’t want to fix their toxic work situation or their toxic caretaker situation or whatever. I just find with most people that we work with that it’s not just one thing, they’re going to have to address two or three or all those different areas. Are you finding the same?

Evan: Oh, 100%. It’s a spider web, you can’t go and touch the left side of the spider web with the right side being affected. It’s like, okay, cool, amino acid you’re great. You can come in with tyrosine, and help someone’s dopamine and catecholamines, fix their energy, fix their drive. But if they’ve got an infection, the tyrosine is a crutch; or if someone’s got an endorphin issue, they’re tearing up, they’re crying easily, they’re really sensitive to emotional or physical pain, you suspect they’ve got endorphin deficiency. You can come in with DLPA, which is DL phenylalanine, and rebuild that. But you’ve got to find the root.

You could take somebody with anxiety and panic attacks and issues like that and you can give them a GABA supplement or passion flower or valerian root or cava or theanine or blue vervain or ashwagandha. But are you working backwards to figure out why the anxiety and the stuff is there in the first place?

I had a lady who — I’ll mention two ladies real quick. I had a lady who had done everything right, fixed all of her labs, everything looked beautiful on the piece of paper, but she couldn’t lose weight. And I’m not a huge fan of a weight loss goal because it usually just happens as a side effect of getting healthy. And I’m like, “Okay, I hear you, you want to lose 20 pounds.” And then I asked her one day, I said, “Hey, is there something that we haven’t discussed.” I said, “I’ve done everything for you, we fixed mitochondria, the liver is better, brain’s better, infections are gone. Is there something you haven’t discussed with me?” And she goes, “Yeah, it’s my husband.” She was like, “I’ve been thinking that we need to get separated for 10 years but I just haven’t brought it up because I’m scared to.”

And I said, “Okay, well, I’m not a therapist with relationships, but I just want you to go home and why don’t you guys just talk about it?” She went home and she talked over the issues with her husband. And I followed up with her in six weeks and she had lost 20 pounds in six weeks. And I said, “Holy crap, what did you do?” And she says, “I did nothing.” I’m like, “You had to do something.” And she goes, “Oh, well, I did talk to my husband, we worked everything out.”

Robyn: Wow, yeah, even just the energetic shift that communication creates — talking about the hard thing, talking about the wide elephant in the room. Lots of marriages get stuck for years or decades around an issue. Sometimes issues-

Evan: I had another story in my brain, but I lost it. But that one’s a cool enough story to mention.

Robyn: That’s a pretty cool story of how sometimes its energy that we have to change to lose the weight, to kill the bug, whatever it is.

Well, you’ve been an incredible source of amazing information, Evan. Tell us three other things that you did on your own wellness journey. You know a ton about a ton of subjects, what are three things that you cleaned up in your home? Just in the spirit of toxic home transformation, what are three areas you addressed? And you can talk about what brands you changed to, or whatever room in your house that you decided these specific chemicals have got to go. They were causing a reaction. You can talk about your baby daughter, any of that.

Evan: Sure, yeah. Well, the first toxin is, hey, get rid of this darn bar stool. That way, she won’t push herself off the table and hit her head again. We sold the table and chairs. Now, we’ve got a really small, low-to-the-ground table and chairs. Thank goodness. Look out for things that your kids can fall off of. That’s more toxic than anything else.

Secondly, I just built a house and we used a paint called ROMABIO, like Rome but with an A, ROMABIO. And it’s a potassium-based paint, which is kind of cool. It’s almost like they took a potassium supplement and ground it up and painted it on your walls.

(The zero VOC thing is kind of a myth in the industry, that’s kind of a buzzword like natural or gluten is. Sherman Williams and these big paint companies say zero VOC, but that only means no VOCs for certain types of VOCs. That doesn’t mean there’s no off-gassing period. You got to go beyond VOC just like certain farmers say we go beyond organic, same thing with the paint industry.)

We did a full potassium based paint in our home, we did a cork flooring from a company called Cali Bamboo. They make a bamboo floor too, but bamboo is really hard and it can scratch. Cork is a little bit softer-

Robyn: We also learned from my interview with Andy Pace, who is the Green Design Center man, and he consults with people. It’s not green building materials like the building industry calls it, but he actually looks at the health of the human occupant and the toxicity level of everything from paint to furniture to fluorine. He said, just so you know, good choice on the cork; with bamboo products, yes, it’s very sustainable because they’re weeds and all that, but they are put through a process so that bamboo flooring actually picks up a lot of the same chemicals in it that there are in the very worst floorings.

Evan: Oh, man. Well, that’s good. Yeah, I didn’t know that, I just thought bamboo was too hard so I just went with a cork instead. I’ll try not to repeat too much that the healthy home guy said.

But addressing EMF was another thing too, I made sure that there’s certain type of breakers. Now, I’m sorry because I don’t know the name of the breaker. I want to say it’s a double arc breaker, don’t quote me on the name. But there’s a certain type of breaker that you can get installed in your breaker box that I had the electrician do.

And what that certain breaker does, if there is a wire shortage or some type of a dirty electricity problem in the home, it will trip the breaker verses your standard breakers, they will not trip and you can have dirty electricity, massive EMF issue in the home and the breaker will not alert you. I think it’s called a double arc fault breaker, but I’m not 100% sure. Consultant your electrician, ask him what I’m talking about. It’s typically a white little breaker inlet versus a black breaker insert.

We did that and then we had kind of an extra coating on the wire throughout the house to try to mitigate any dirty electricity, or what’s called ELF, the very low frequency fields. And then we are doing the Stetzer filters from Graham Stetzer. And I have measured those. Some people talk about dirty electricity filters, but the caveat is you have to make sure you’re not making a magnetic field problem worse because if there is a wiring issue, and you plug in a green way for a Stetzer filter, you can actually increase the magnetic fields and you make a worse problem.

You need to make sure that you’ve got a building biologist or just do your own research if you get smart enough about it on your own. Measure the before and after with magnetic fields, because you can have some people buy dirty electricity filters to fix a high frequency noise problem, which is separate from a magnetic field problem.

Magnetic field is typically from motors and things like that. Dirty electricity is a separate type of EMF, bad guy. Reducing dirty electricity can increase magnetic fields. We could do a whole nother hour on this. But just do it before and after and make sure you haven’t made a problem worse when you think you’re making it better. EMF would be a big one, the paint, the floor would be a big one.

And then I moved out into the country. It’s kind of inconvenient because when my daughter hit her head, it was like 45 minutes to get to the hospital. But pray to God that that’s a rare situation and that the rest of the time, we can be out in the peace and quiet. And I planted a ton of trees and I’ve got 80 acres of forest behind me where my daughter and my wife and I, we watch all the birds. That’s our favorite hobby is to watch birds. We got a Baltimore Oriole the other day. That was so cool to see him come in and migrate north for the spring.

I think connecting to nature is important for your home. Try to integrate nature, the whole Fung Shui thing. I’ve got so many plants that people think I’m starting a nursery. It’s like, what are you doing? I love plants, I’ve got so many plants I can hardly keep up with. I’ve got blueberries out there in the yard, I’ve got peaches and apples and evergreens and honey berries, which is a new thing I just learned about.

And what else do I have? Service berries, I’ve got a raised bed garden out there where I’ve got some other stuff growing. I think connecting to nature, even if you live in an urban environment, you can still grow herbs or something to try to ground yourself. I’m a huge fan of being grounded to the planet both physically, emotionally, chemically, spiritually, and planting and putting your hands in the dirt.

Oh, my gosh, there’s no better thing. If I’m stressed out, I’ll just go buy a new tree and I’ll plant it. And then I come inside, I’m just like, “Oh, I feel so good.” It is therapy for me to go plant stuff. I think that’s good advice.

You said three, but I’m going to give you one more too, which is really, really take your sleep environment seriously. I’m sure people have mentioned that and they say the typical boring stuff like cool, dark, blackout curtains. But measure your bedroom for magnetic fields and dirty electricity because my daughter, when she was an infant (now, she’s almost two), all of us were kind of having some sleeping issues. And we thought, “Well, why don’t we try turning off the breaker to the bedroom?” We turned off the breaker to the bedroom and all of a sudden she started sleeping much better through the night. And she’s not susceptible to placebo effect.

It’s like, okay, we changed nothing else: flipped the switch, turned off the power to the bedroom, she started sleeping better. It’s free, it doesn’t cost anything to try this. And if your Wi-Fi router is in your bedroom or on at night, or your cell phone is charging on your nightstand… I’ve had teenagers with their cell phone under their pillow, don’t let your kids sleep with their cell phone under the pillow. Put it on airplane mode if they’re going to do that. These are simple things and it cost nothing to try it. But if you’re sleeping good, then your daytime life is going to be much better.

Robyn: Yeah. So many words of wisdom there, I love it. I appreciate you and I appreciate the show that you’re doing. Nobody pays you to do a podcast. And you’ve interviewed some amazing guests, and you’re an outstanding interviewer. I really enjoy your own depth of the way you ask questions.

It’s the Evan Brand show, everyone, friends. Make sure you check that out. And Evan, thank you so much for this conversation today. I loved it.

Evan: Robyn, thank you so much, it’s so good to chat with each other. We’ll get you on my podcast soon too, we’ll have some fun together.

Robyn: That sounds good, have a wonderful Monday.

#288 Dr. Stuart Nunnally, DDS on Cavitations, Mercury Toxicity and Holistic Dentistry

Dr. Stuart Nunnally is a graduate of the University of Texas Health Science Center Dental School in San Antonio (1980).  He maintains an integrative biological dental practice in Marble Falls, Texas where he has treated patients from all fifty states and twenty-four countries.

Dr. Nunnally is board certified in naturopathic medicine and is board certified in integrative biologic dental medicine.  He serves on the teaching faculty of the Academy of Comprehensive Integrative Medicine and The American College of Integrative Medicine and Dentistry, and he frequently teaches on all aspects of biological dentistry.

Today We Discuss

  • Dr. Nunnally's mysterious symptoms that led him to Dr. Huggins
  • How mercury toxicity mimics other health problems
  • How do you find and fix cavitations?
  • Ozone, Vitamin C drips, platelets and other advanced technologies and how they increase the success rate of holistic dentistry

#287 Ann Louise Gittleman on the Gallbladder Thyroid Connection

New York Times bestselling author Ann Louise Gittleman is highly respected as a health pioneer, weight-loss expert, and award-winning author of thirty books, including The Fat Flush Plan and her latest book Radical Metabolism which you can check out here.

Today We Discuss

  • Why do people have trouble digesting fats?
  • What is the gallbladder thyroid connection?

#286 Dr. Justin and Evan on Heavy Metal Toxicity Symptoms and Sources


Today we talk about Heavy Metals, to clear some myths and misconceptions about the big ones, such as Aluminum, Arsenic, Cadmium, Lead, and Mercury. Listen as they also talk about some of the significant ways to support detoxification.

In this episode, we cover:

00:30    The Big Ones

03:00    Sources of Heavy Metals

05:10    Heavy Metals and Cognitive Issues

11:52    Linked Major Infertility Issues

28:10   Dental Amalgams, Flu Vaccinations, and Various Chemicals

17:25   Inside Out Hyperbarics and Wellness Center In a Picture


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, guys. It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani here. Evan Brand, how are we doing today?

Evan Brand: Hey, man. Happy Monday to you. We’re gonna talk about heavy metals. I’ve been geeking out on this, and I thought, “Why don’t we cover this ‘cause there’s a lot of myths and misconceptions about heavy metals and…”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: …a lot of fear-mongering about heavy metals.” So maybe we can clear some things up today and answer some questions.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So we’ll go over some of the major sources for our more toxic heavy metals. This will include uh—Aluminum, Arsenic, Cadmium, Lead, Mercury—those are kind of like our big ones— and some of the major ways we can kind of help support detoxification. And, you know, we talked about the vectors. We’ll talk about the detoxification. A lot of the unspoken things is actually good digestion. Right? A lot of metals are removed via our hepatobiliary system, which is our liver and gallbladder dumping out into our gut as well. So we need healthy digestion, healthy gut function to be able to eliminate metals as well. So a lot of people just think, “Hey, let’s do this fancy chelating program or this IV or this or that, but having good digestion can actually help eliminate a lot of our toxins out our stool better. We have healthier transit time. We have less leaky gut so there’s less of these metals get reabsorbed into our body and create uhm—you know, ideally, less immune issues when our gut’s healthier.

Evan Brand: Yeah. One thing that we test for— We run a stool test on every new client, and one thing we look for is a marker called beta-glucuronidase, which is an enzyme that goes elevated usually in the presence of bacterial overgrowth— they’re some other type of gut issue. And what it indicates if it’s elevated is that the person is reabsorbing toxins. So this would include heavy metals, meaning, if you buy some fancy detox tea or detox protocol, but you have elevated beta-glucuronidase because you have a gut infection or, like Justin said, your gut’s not working properly, you’re recirculating all of this stuff. And if you’re not pooping on a daily basis, preferably twice a day but at least once a day— if you’re not doing that, it doesn’t matter how perfect your heavy metal detox protocol is. You’ve got to fix these big foundational pieces first before a detox will work.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: One hundred percent. And then, just another simple aspect is, the solution to pollution is dilution. Drink enough good quality water and good healthy minerals, whether some sea salt or trace mineral support supplement, that’s gonna be helpful as well just to kind of keep your body keep flushing things out.

Evan Brand: Just sip on water all day. I mean, some people argue like you could just chug water, but I don’t know. I don’t think you’re gonna get the same benefit as just constantly sipping on it. Do you have any— any thoughts on it?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I mean, I think it depends. I mean, you know, you’re gonna absorb it. If you’re drinking a whole bunch of cold water before meal, or whatever, that cold water’s gonna sit in your stomach a lot longer and get heated up to your body temperature. ‘Cause if it’s, you know, dropping 50 or 60-degree water into your intestinal tract, that’s really cold. That may disrupt your digestion so it will just sit on your stomach for a while ‘til it gets to room temperature. So I think if it’s more room temperature kind of stuff, you could probably go faster. If it’s colder, you probably want to sip it more.

Evan Brand: Yup. Let’s talk about some of the sources of heavy metals. People may hear the topic of heavy metals and think that it’s some like new ones that doesn’t apply to them because they eat organic and they live somewhere where they think it’s not an issue. But, literally, every single person on planet Earth has heavy metals. We’re even seeing in some of the whale blubber samples taken from the Arctic that there’s PCB’s and dioxins and heavy metals and other chemicals, even in untouched places of the planet where mankind has never stepped foot. So let’s go through some of these together.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Let’s start with the—what I consider the more toxic heavy metals. So, Aluminum’s one, for instance. So Aluminum i—is actually still common in vaccinations. You’ll see it on the ingredients label as Aluminum hydroxide, so that’s still there for sure. You’re gonna see in some antiperspirants, in various deodorants, uh—Aluminum cookware, utensils, Aluminum foil is very common as well, uh—Aluminum cans as well. I still drink at some Aluminum cans, just because when I go in my boat or whatever, you know, you can’t quite bring a nice glass bottle ‘cause it may break and go in the water. So— It’s kind of a dose-dependency thing, so just do your best if you’re gonna drink out of Aluminum cans ‘cause they are convenient if you’re drinking a sparkling mineral water. It

’s nice, you know, you don’t have to worry about a breaking or cracking. Just try to follow the 80-20 rule on that. We talked about deodorant. We talked about toothpaste— another big one. Toothbr—Toothpaste uhm— sugar, uhm—refined sugar, you can get some Aluminum in that as well. Uhm— various medications, had it as well. Uhm—Anything else you want to highlight there? I mean, there’s a lot of different places you can get it— pesticides, medications, deodorants, ceramics. Just trying to think of the big, big ones-

Evan Brand: Yeah, dude.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -Aspirin—

Evan Brand: So, I’ve got— I’ve got a— a paper pulled up here that was from The American Journal of Epidemiology 2009, and it’s called, “Aluminum and Silica in Drinking Water, and the Risk of Alzheimer’s Disease or Cognitive Decline,” and it was like a 15-year study, and what they were saying is, just based on doing tap water—just everyday tap water exposure—They were looking at these people in Southern France, and it was almost 2,000 people that were studied, and of course, what they find is Aluminum intake significantly associated with increased risk of Dementia. So, when we hear heavy metals, people like, “Okay, yeah. I know heavy metals are bad. Why should I care?” Well, you should care because this stuff is affecting your brain. Like Klinghardt, I had him on the Candida summit. He talked about the Alzheimer’s. He talked about Dementia and these cognitive issues, and there’s a huge link to Aluminum. So, this is a big deal and it’s not something that you want to ignore. So, I—I put the link, Justin for you in the—in the—in the chat box, and then, we may be able to share it later on with the—with the listeners.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely. So, I think—I think a big kind of take-home for the Aluminum is, number one, you’re vaccinations are gonna be a big factor. Uh— The antiperspirants, the Aluminum foil, the Aluminum cookware, uh—pesticides, chemicals, uhm—conventional type of toothpaste—those are, I think, the big ones.

Evan Brand: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Anything you wanted to highlight there?

Evan Brand: Let’s move on to Cadmium because we see-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -Cadmium a lot. We know that it does come from car exhaust fumes, and there are different ways that you can measure heavy metals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Evan Brand: Maybe we’ll talk about that in a minute but— I would say car exhaust is huge—a big, big, big source! I’ve also looked at a couple of papers where they studied people who lived close to the highway, or— get this— even more interesting, people who live close to a stop sign or a stoplight.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, really?

Evan Brand: Think of the car as it’s driving by, it’s probably not as big of a deal, but a car using it’s brake pads to stop at a stoplight or stop at a stop sign, that brake dust creates more toxic off-gassing into those houses that lived closer. So, they literally, on the same street, studied uh—the levels of metals in the person on the street, where they just have people pass by, and then they studied the people closer to the stop sign. The people closer to the stop sign have more— had— have more heavy metal exposure, just from the brake pads.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And, what was that study, Evan?

Evan Brand: Uh— Let me see if I can pull it up. It was on—It was on PubMed, one of my random search days. Let me see if I can find it though.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s crazy. Well, while you’re looking for it, other major sources. Cadmium— you can commonly get it in cigarettes and, potentially, marijuana, uh— ceramics, burning coal, instant coffee. It can be found in Amalgam fillings, pikes, fungicides or pesticides. You’re also gonna see it in some paints. You’re gonna see it in some oil. You’re gonna see it in various uhm— smelt ring, or—or kind of like soldering of canned foods. Uh—Also, our— our Cadmium’s also— c— Cigarettes, that can also be a big uh—affector of the prostate. I’ve seen some studies talking about Cadmium driving inflammation in the prostate as well.

Evan Brand: Here’s the—Here’s one of the papers. So this one is— It’s— It’s titled—This was in uh— 2012 International Journal of Environmental Public Health, and it’s titled, “Influence of Traffic Activity on Heavy Metal Concentrations of Roadside Farm Land Soil.” Basically, this one was different in the city one. This one was in the country and they were checking the soil, and they found that on certain roads that had a farm right next to the road-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Evan Brand: -and they found significantly higher Lead. Let me see what else here. I know Lead was the big one, which I guess, which is-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Evan Brand: -weird because maybe certain countries are still suing Lead in gasoline, where in the US, we’ve mainly got rid of Lead.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: [clicks tongue] I think—

Evan Brand: I put that one in the chat box.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I think there is still some Lead in certain types of gasoline, not like maybe the conventional one but I think maybe in certain gasoline in—in jet fuel. I think there may still be Lead in like various jet fuels.

Evan Brand: Okay, okay, okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Not quite a hundred percent sure on that. I’ve seen some research showing that jet fuel is—is a source of Lead, so I have to imagine there are still got to be some in there.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I just put another link in—in your Skype chat or your uh—Google chat. People can’t see it, but it’s for you. And maybe you could post it in the YouTube, but it was people—This was uh—uh— LA Times article about freeway pollution and how far that it travels and it,a nd what they found this paper that they’re referencing here. They found that the uh—the traffic pollution drifts more than a mile from the freeway.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Interesting. Yeah, I know right now in Austin, we have this issue with sub-Saharan-African dust. So, it’s this weird kind of thing—You can Google it— but you have this dust from like this kind of African area that’s like over Austin right now and parts of Central Texas. And there’s a lot of allergens in it, so people’s allergies right now really kind of in full effect because of this African dust.

Evan Brand: You’re saying this is literally coming from Africa and blowing-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -around the planet?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, literally.

Evan Brand: Holy smokes!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: yeah, exactly. So, and it’s one of those things. We got to do our best to really create a healthy home environment.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So this uh— Sorry to interrupt you. This—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: It was UCLA who did this sp—specific study in California, and what they found is that, “In the nighttime, the winds change.” And so it was going over a mile drift from the highway. During the daytime, they said that the drift, you know, didn’t change as much. But basically, they’re measuring ultrafine particles, hydrocarbons, Nitric oxide, and other pollutants succumb from the car exhausts. So, I mean, really—you know, we could talk about all of the—the detox protocols and such, but why not talk about—you could just move. I mean, if you live right next to a highway, that’s probably not a good idea. So when you mentioned Cadmium, or we talked about Aluminum or Arsenic—Okay. You could—You could stay on a detox protocol, but if you’re close to the source, you’re just gonna keep getting re-infected, kind of like with gut bugs. Like, if you’re drinking contaminated water with Giardia, you could treat Giardia and you could end up with Giardia again.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, man. It may really depend, right? If you— If you want to be living in the city or if you have to work in what- a major hub like New York City or something, you know, that’s a sacrifice you’re gonna have to make. You’re gonna have to invest more on making sure water’s on board, uh—being on more detoxification support, whether it’s various binders, whether it’s activated charcoal or Chlorella or Glutathione precursors, or like kind of liver-tonifying support. You may have to frequent infrared sauna more to help your body kind of sweat some of these things out. You may have to invest in a really good air filtration device for your house or your apartment to kind of filter some of these things out. I have one by AdvancedAir that I like that works really good on—at justinhealth.com/shop. That’s good. I like it. It’s really affordable. There’s some more expensive ones. One called Molekule, uh—where there’s a “c”—in molekule, there’s a “k”, so “Molekule” with a “k”. That’s a good one. It’s a little more pricey though. So, find a really good air filtration device that you could put in your house or in your apartment to help at least combat some of these things. Make sure water and diet’s good. And you may want to look at detoxification support a little bit more frequently, and then find a place where you can frequent an infrared sauna maybe once a week, to help with that extra sweat.

Evan Brand: There’s major infertility issues linked to heavy metals too. So, you know, Justin’s already mentioned some symptoms. We talked about the Alzheimer’s connection. There’s fatigued. There’s gut symptoms that can happen. There’s sleep issues that can happen. But if you just go on PubMed on your own, you could just type in “Heavy Metals Fertility” and you’ll find that there’s [sic] miscarriages and other sorts of ovary and pituitary issues that happen from heavy metal exposure. And in some of these studies, what they do is they’ll ggive a woman some type of a chelator. This is not gonna be a natural chelator. This is gonna be like your typical uh— DMPS-type stuff, and then, they found that they were able to stop the woman from having uterine fibroids, miscarriages and other hormonal problems.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Because—Because they chelated some of the metals down?

Evan Brand: That’s right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow-

Evan Brand: It was—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -it was powerful.

Evan Brand: Yeah. This was a long time ago. This was over uh—20 years ago that this was— that this has come out. This was journal and toxicology. Just type in “Heavy Metals Fertility,” and people can read about it. But this is real stuff, so it’s not just uh—a trendy bus word to work on metals, like we all have this.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And a lot of these metals, they have a similar mechanism, how they—they irritate or damage people, right? What are they doing? They’re affecting the Mitochondria. They’re jamming up the Mitochondria, making it harder to generate energy. So, it’s like taking uh—a five or four-lane highway into a one-lane highway. They’re jamming it up. Uh—Number two, they’re putting stress on your liver and on your detoxification system. Right. Of course, these compounds are flowing around the body. There’s more inflammation. More inflammation can mean brain fog. It can mean more leaky gut. Right? All of these various things are gonna be there. And of course, these uhm—metals have an effect to damaging neurological tissue. Potentially, brain fog, mood issue, cognitive stuff, maybe even increased autoimmune conditions, Multiple Sclerosis, other auto—other Dementia-like symptoms, there’s some connection with Aluminum. There’s some connection with Aluminum and Alzheimer’s and Dementia. There’s some connection with Mercury and other MS autoimmune neurological conditions. Again, the research on this, it’s like you can find one study that says it can and then another says that it can’t. Right? That’s the problem with the research, is if you’re in a certain industry and you want a certain result, you can pretty much rent the Ph.D. to adjust the sample size and to manipulate the studies uh—in a way to find what you want. So, if there’s a study showing something negative, and it makes sense to me how, you know, hate to see what they did. This is how they came up with the results. I’m always leery now if someone else find something different. I’m always like, “Oo—‘cause it was found once.” I’m always like—I always— No. I’m always on the side. If I—If it was found once, it probably is something that we have to be careful of.

Evan Brand: Yep. Yeah, that’s a good point about the research. I could cherry pick things and—and make it look like heavy metals ‘cause every health problem ever. But a gut infection plus a heavy metal problem, a lot of practitioner ay that they go together. The heavy metals and parasites and other gut infections are sort of two peas in a pod, and then if you don’t address one, you can’t—you can’t fix the other. And I would agree.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But—But the research stuff, for instance, let me give you an example. Someone— I saw someone put an article on soy, how, say, soy isn’t that big of a deal. It’s not producing a significant amount of Estrogen to hurt—hurt a guy, or to affect, you know, boys that are being breastfed—or I’m sorry— formula-fed with uhm—soy. Yet, there are studies out there showing that soy can provide Phytoestrogens to help women with post-menopausal symptoms. So, what is it? Right? If it’s providing enough Estrogen to help a menopausal female with their menopausal symptoms, tell me why or should walk me through how that mechanism is not gonna affect men, who Estrogen can really affect this feedback loop, especially young developing boys and infants and babies that are with Soy formula. So, once I see data on one thing, yet other research is contradicting it, my feelers are always like, you know, I—I got to be careful with that.

Evan Brand: That’s smart. That’s really smart. You mentioned the sauna, so sweating— I talked Dr. William Shawl, the Ph.D. at Great Plain Laboratory. He said it doesn’t really matter in terms of detox. It doesn’t matter whether you sweat via infrared sauna, whether you sweat a hot rock sauna, whether you sweat from running or riding your bicycle down the street. The sweating was the key that he’ seen across the board over the last 10-20 years to reduce levels of toxins. This is not—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So exercise?

Evan Brand: Yeah, so exercise was key, he said so. He runs, basically, everyday.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I have seen data though that it’s showing that the—the near infrared, right? I think it’s the far infrared uhm— [crosstalk] does penetrate deeper. So there is uh—a deeper penetration where you may be—you’re ringing out uh— a— a bigger sponge if you will.

Evan Brand: I—I believe it. Here is the interesting thing. The guy eats out basically every day at restaurants, and that’s obviously conventional food that’s sprayed with pesticides and a bunch of other things, but he didn’t seem to worry about it. I was kind of let down. I’m like, “Man, you’re like a guy I look up to. You created this great laboratory.” He’s like, “I don’t bring my lunch.” And I said, “So that means you eat out everyday at— at conventional restaurants?” And he was like, “Yup. I don’t worry about it. I’m feeling pretty good.” It’s like, “Dude!” So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I mean, I’m a big fan of the 80-20 rule, so try to do your best 80% of the time, and 20 percent of the time you can have a little bit of latitude. Now, again, that rule kind of fall South that the more sick you are, the more symptoms you have, then we go up to 90 to a hundred percent. But yeah, I agree. I mean, there’s lots of things that are out there o you try to do your best to have lifestyle habits or substitutes, or you find good restaurants that are gonna good options for you. [crosstalk] That makes sense.

Evan Brand: Yeah. Look for grass-fed— grass-fed burgers and organic restaurants. I mean, just type in, “Organic Restaurant” in your city, or wherever you’re travelling to. If you travel a lot— and I hear that from clients. “Oh, I travel. How do I eat healthy while travelling? How do I avoid these toxins?” For one, you—you’d bring your own water, or get a Berkey Sport, the little portable Berkey. You can filter-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Evan Brand: -out some of the heavy metals and pesticides from the tap water if you have to drink tap water.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally, hundred percent. So let’s keep on rolling here. Copper’s another one. I mean, Copper’s in it an actual nutrient as well, so it’s not a heavy metal, like a toxic meta per se, but you can have high amounts of it with an IUD called uh– Paragard is one. Copper pipes—older ones. There’s some Copper in some fungicides and various—and various chemicals up. Some people eat, just get too much Copper in their Vitamins, or they’re eating a vegetarian diet that’s higher in Copper and they’re not getting enough Zinc from potential meats. That’s another option. Not a huge deal with that. With Copper, you can always do Vitamin C to help chelate, as well as uhm—higher doses of Zinc as well. Any comments on that, Evan?

Evan Brand: Yeah. I just posted a podcast today with Ann Louise Gittleman, and she talked about how she had clients with major, major Acne issues-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uhmhm—

Evan Brand: -and they were Copper-toxic, and it was because they were drinking Kombucha. So, supposedly, Kombucha is the natural properties of the tea is that it uptakes Copper from the soil, that the tea is grown-in, which is huge for the Kombucha. So she got the client off Kombucha completely—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What kind of Kombucha did she say?

Evan Brand: She said any. Any and all Kombucha. She doesn’t—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I imagined if it’s organically grown though there’s gonna be a more balanced, I mean, amount of minerals in there, right?

Evan Brand: I don’t know. I don’t know. She—She acted like it was all Kombucha. She—She said, “Stay away from it. You know, don’t touch it with a 10-foot straw, basically.” So—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, I—I think there’s a lot of health benefits in Kom—in Kombucha. There’s a lots of different kinds out there. Some are really high in sugar. Some are low in sugar. Some are organic; some are not. So I think [incomprehensible]—

Evan Brand: I know. How would she—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -maybe not as good.

Evan Brand: I know. It was a broad brush stroke, but it’s like, “How would you verify?” I guess you’d have to test all the different brands, like GT’s, and measure is there high Copper? But anyway-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: Either way, she had them come off Kombucha and then she did some ZInc, and then this person’s major Acne problem went away. So she was talking about if you’re trying to think, “Okay. If you can’t get your doctor to test you for uh— for the Copper, look for some of the symptoms, and some of the biggest ones were— were mainly skin. And then also like Anxiety issues and fatigue issues-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah.

Evan Brand: -and uh— Tinnitus, ringing of the ears, hyperactivity, sleep issues. It was all tied in to being Copper toxic. She called it being a Copperhead, and she said she was a Copperhead for many, many years.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. I mean, we’ll see. I mean, hh— I have a hard time thinking that that’s all because of Copper.

Evan Brand: Yes.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Personally, there could have— There— There could easily been some SIBO there, and this person could have been just consuming too much fermentable products ‘cause of their gut bacterial overgrowth.

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  A— And that could have been the mechanism, right? I don’t know, but I mean, just my clinical experience with thousands of patients, I don’t— I don’t see that being a  huge deal. Changing other diet and support the detoxification in getting, you know, more Zinc in there tends to be a good way of supporting that. But we’ll— we’ll note it.

Evan Brand: It sound— I mean, it sounds sexy, right? All the problems were just linked to that one little beverage, but yeah, I agree with you…

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I— I don’t—

Evan Brand: …probably more root causes. And that’s the hard part too. Like, when you interview these people, I mean, you could just probe them and probe them and like call them out on their stuff. But then, I don’t know. Like, are you gonna end up getting— getting somewhere with it or is it just gonna go nowhere? You know?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: The problem is, number one, we’re moving so many levers. It’s not like we’re having a clinical study or a clinical trial where people are in a metabolic war and we’re tweaking only one variable.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, we have to really use common sense, and that’s why I try to look at what are the major mechanisms we— we’re moving when we make a diet change or a lifestyle change or a supplement change? And the— the— the foundational levers are simple things like sleep, water, digestion, getting rid of infections, supporting hormones, supporting inflammation, reduction, and you— So many symptoms can change with just one of those levers, and if we, like, isolate each lever one at a time, it would take patients years to get better.

Evan Brand: Very cool.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So, you know, we just do our best as clinicians and doctors to like use our common sense to— to see based on our experience what we think it was. So, yeah!

Evan Brand: [crosstalk] We— We probably moved— I don’t know— 50 needles at a time or something.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow. So many, totally. [crosstalk] So next, let’s go to Lead. Let’s go to— Oh! What yo—

Evan Brand: Yeah, hit Lead.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -next.

Evan Brand: Hit Lead-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -but we got to hit Mercury, too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Auto exhaust. But again, we talked about that being unleaded for most of United States. Maybe some jet fuels aren’t. You know, perchlorate’s in the jet fuels. smelting stuff, anything that’ smelted, uhm—circuit boards that require certain smelting for the wires to stick, of course. Root canal’s maybe an issue. Uhm—glazes, hair dyes, Lead pipes, uh—potential Lead paint if you’re in a house before 19—I think—76 is the rule. Uh—Some pencils, some pesticides that have Lead-Arsenic in it, rain waters, uhm—some of the cheaper Chinese herbs, Ayurvedic herbs from China, some of them are grown in very high Lead-based soils. Uh—concrete, wood, building materials, final siding, anything else you want to add there, Evan?

Evan Brand: Uh—I would add guns. You know, shooting.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, yeah. Shooting booths, yeah.

Evan Brand: Uh—I have—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good.

Evan Brand: I had a female client who—she was like a private investigator. I think she worked for the government. Anyway, she was at the shooting range every single week, and it was an indoor shooting range. She said that the airflow was not very good, and she could see like the smoke, you know, floating around her after she was shooting, and she had a lot of like the Lead toxicity symptoms. So, you know, her brain was not working very well. She was depressed. She was anxious. Her blood pressure was up. Her memory was terrible. Uh—She didn’t have any of like the crazy Lead stuff, like paralysis, and numbness, and Parkinson’s, like some of the major manifestations. She didn’t have that, but her sleep was crap and her brain was crap. So we did start giving her just some gentle uh—Chlorella-based uh—tinctures, and we did see symptoms get better. However, though, like you said, at the same time, I wasn’t doing just that. I was also getting rid of the many, many, many different gut infections that she had.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally. Not—I go to the shooting range like once a quarter, like when my wife was pregnant, like you know, she just did’t come with me. It was like, “Alright, you stay away.” But typically, if we go, it’s like, “Alright. Have a little bit activated charcoal and Glutathione and antioxidants kind of before and after.” Kind of clean things up, and I just choose a good range that has good uh—air filtration like you mentioned.

Evan Brand: I go to an outdoor range, but then also, I use—I use Copper bullets. Uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s good.

Evan Brand: They don’t have it—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: A lot more—They are a lot more expensive though, so—

Evan Brand: [crosstalk] They are expensive. I just don’t shoot as many. [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. There you go.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s a good option. So let’s hit Mercury next. Anything else you wanted to highlight about Lead there, Evan?

Evan Brand: I mean it’s huge. We can spend a whole hour. We can spend a whole year on Lead. It’s a big deal. You got to look at all sources, especially your Lead pipes, if you live in the old part of a—old part of a city. You know, look at the uh—Look at the Flint water— you know— crisis thing, you know. It’s—It’s bad, so—so yes, please.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and that’s why I just don’t—don’t trust—I don’t trust any government’s water, or any local municipality’s water. I have two water filtrations: the whole house and the countertop. If you’re on a budget, get a countertop. I—You pay—If you actually are paying for bottled water right now, you’ll—you’ll pay for itself in six months, okay?

Evan Brand: Yup.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You know, you can get a good one for  two to 300 dollars, and ends up being less than a dime per gallon, so super good. And then you can filter it out. And, people are always complaining about, “Oh, you filter it out, you pull all the minerals out.” It’s like, “Come on, man” I rather have cleaner water and add minerals back in. It’s way easier to add mineral back in than to leave toxins in the water.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I don’t want toxins in my water. Let’s hit Mercury.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: You mentioned the uh—the vaccines for Aluminum. Obviously, Mercury— Thimerosal is like I think it’s 48% Mercury? The Thimerosal in—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: …in vaccines?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. It’s gonna be in primarily your Flu vaccine now. They pull some out but they replaced a lot of the ones that had Thimerosal in it with Aluminum hydroxide-

Evan Brand: Oh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -so it’s only in that one. There may be one version of the deep— the D— DTP, and one version NMR, potentially. There was, right now, the primary one is just the Flu vaccine.

Evan Brand: Okay. So you think Mercury is out of— pretty much out of vaccines? Uh—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Yeah. Now, there is some Mercury that’s used in the processing of the vaccination, like not in the actual ingredients.

Evan Brand: Okay.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And if you go look on the John Hopkins ingredient label for Vaccine Safety, there’ll be a little ex— like a little like kind of star at the bottom of that, and it will say like, “Oh, like Mercury that’s used in the processing is not like counted if it’s less than 0.005 like per liter like ppm or whatever.” So there is some people that say there is still some Mercury. It’s just not in the actual vaccine. It’s used in the processing of it, and it’s still at a— a reasonably high level. So you have to take that with a grain of salt.

Evan Brand: Yeah. I would say, particularly, people that could pay mo— that should pay more attention to this would be like military people, where they travel to certain countries and they have to go and get like 20 or 30 different vaccines to go to Afghanistan, for example. I mean, how do you mitigate that? Like you said, you’ve just got to do a lot of your good detox support and binders to try to mitigate the risk of vaccines if you’re forced to do that for your job, and you can’t-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -opt out.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and there’s some research on that. Like, if you watch the documentary, Trace Amounts, they go over some of that with the Mercury. But just something to keep in mind, the big source is gonna be your teeth though. Dental Amalgam fillings, uhm— they’re typically referred to as Silver Amalgam Fillings. It’s kind of uh— I would just say poor marketing, or I should say, inauthentic marketing because they’re over 50% Mercury. So you—

Evan Brand: People have to look up the documentary Our Daily Dose. It goes into the whole history of how the American Dental Association got corrupted. I think it was back in the 1800’s, maybe early 1900’s and how Mercury even came into the picture. Incredibly corrupt history.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: What’s it called again?

Evan Brand: It’s called Our Daily Dose.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Our Daily Dose. Alright, cool. So we’ll make sure we put links for that. I have to put that on my list.

Evan Brand: It also— Yeah. It’s incredible, man. It also talks about the uh— cremation and how anybody who lives near crematories should probably move because when they’re cremating the bodies, all of the Mercury out of those dead bodies is going out of the exhaust pipe into the air from the crematory, landing in the soil and into the air. If anyone living near a crematory— So, we’ve got to find a better way to— to mitigate— I mean, everyone dies, and we’ve got millions of bodies that have Mercury in them, so—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m surprised they don’t require— there’s not some kind of uhm—

Evan Brand: A scrubber or something?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Something that a scrubber to filter that out. I— I would think it wouldn’t be that difficult to do that.

Evan Brand: I know. I know. I— It’s— It’s— When you watch that documentary, it will literally blow your mind because it’s ending up in the groundwater. They’re doing studies of groundwater near uh— crematories, and even the groundwater— uh— The fish are contaminated next to uh— I guess we can mention fish in the ocean but for this specific topic, I meant fish any— in any uh— freshwater near crematories is a big deal.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow. Well, good to know. But your dental amalgam fillings will be the biggest. And of course, things uh— like that are excellent to know about vaccinations with the flu, for sure, is gonna be a big one. Uh— Some various pesticides and chemicals will still have some of these things in there. Again, we have a list we’re going off of so I can’t give you specific products, and again, if you’re buying things from certain countries that don’t have the— the higher environmental regulations, like some of the places in China, may have a higher level of Mercury still in the paint or Lead in the paint, or you know. So you got to be careful of where you’re getting things. But again, I can give you a whole list. Fertilizers, laxatives, lumbers, paints, [crosstalk] exhaust fumes, embalming fluids— So embalming fluid makes a lot of— well, embalm— I should say, embalm— U— Yeah. Embalming fluid. That’s like basically antifreeze, I think.

Evan Brand: They use uh— Formaldehyde in them—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Formaldehyde. Yeah, Formaldehyde. Exactly.

Evan Brand: It’s not—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Chlorine bleach, sludge, sewage disposal, lightening creams, waxes, wood preservatives— I think the big thing people got to be aware of is the Flu vaccine component, the heavy metals in your mouth, uhm—

Evan Brand: And the fish, [crosstalk] the Tuna.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Some of the Tuna, the higher Mercury— The Skipjack Tuna’s pretty good. It’s got a very low Mercury to high Selenium ratio. So— Selenium’s a natural chelator of Mercury, so if you’re eating fish that have Mercury in it, Selenium’s a natural chelator, and Selenium’s actually a mineral-precursor to Glutathione. So, the more Selenium, the fish— the nutrients in the fish are actually detoxifying you at the same time. It’s—

Evan Brand: What about other fish? Do you worry at all about like, even in Salmon or Cod, or Haddock? Do you worry about the Pollack, the smaller fish?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  You got to look at the high Mercury to low Selenium fish. So the shark, the pilot whale, the swordfish— those are gonna be more concerning ‘cause they have lower amounts of Selenium and higher amounts of Mercury. But if you look at the higher Selenium and lower Mercury fish, Skipjack Tuna, your Salmon, your Haddock, your Cod. So, man, I think three to four servings a week is fine. There’s been some studies showing that when women cut out their fish, right— even during pregnancy time, their kid actually— their baby drops IQ of seven points because of the healthy fats, the DHEA, the DHA fats in the fish are now reduced out of their diet, which is— those fats are really important for neurological and brain formation. So I think three to four servings a week is fine, just choose the higher Selenium to Mercury ratio fish. Just Google “High Selenium Low Mercury ratio fish,” and you’ll get a nice little PDF uhm— with that in there, so you can at least plan appropriately.

Evan Brand: I guess you could, if you were extra paranoid, you could do some of the chelators that we’ve talked about. And I— I hate to call them chelators, so technically not that. Mild detoxifiers, like your Michael Ni’s C— Chlorella could help if you’re gonna consume seafood.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  Totally. By the way, a— an MD friend of mine used to give me so much crap ‘cause I would use to call them [chē-ˌlā-tərs] like you just did. He was like [ˈkē-ˌlā-tərs] [crosstalk]. I’m gonna pass. I’m gonna pass down that— that knowledge to you as well.

Evan Brand: I— I— I shouldn’t even use the word ‘cause it’s technically not correct. It’s— It technically the— ‘cause the chelator is more something that is—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like a DMPS-

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -or TSA or EDTA.

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: More of a chemical bonder.

Evan Brand: Yeah. The natural stuff is not a chelator. I— It’s technically just a mild detoxifier. So I’ll just ditch the word from my vocabulary.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Nah. No— No problem. I’m just giving you a little hard time there.

Evan Brand: [laughs]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But in general, cheap Chinese herbs, uhm— dental Mercury fillings, uh— pesticides, your— the Mercury in your mouth we talked about. I think those are the big things. Any you want to highlight there?

Evan Brand: I don’t think so. I mean, we could go on and on with some of these other metals. I mean, car exhaust has so many different things It pops up across the board for containing Thallium as well. Uh— we tualked about the Aluminum. Also, Tin could be your Tin cans and stuff too.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Evan Brand: Uh— I think you could freak out and probably make yourself want to live in a bubble pretty quick if you start reading about some of these stuff. But I would just say, reduce sourcing. If you can change your zip code and move somewhere that’s not close to a highway, do it. And then, if you can get safely and healthily get out— healthily get out the uh— Amalgams with the biological dentsists— If you’re strong enough to do this, and Justin, maybe you give your disclaimer or your two cents on this, but I think you should probably be somewhat strong. Adrenal, detox-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yep.

Evan Brand: -gut-wise before you go into biological dentistry if removing Amalgams.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Bingo! Stronger with your detoxification pathways, good nutrition, uh— healthy gut function before you actually go into the process of removing things. I think if you want simple things, you can alway do some of the— the binders, the Chlorella, uh— the various citrus pectins, the various activated charcoal I think is— is safer, and starting at lower dose, I think, is okay. But if you want to get tested, we test— I test my patients all the time. I use a DMPS chelator for the initial test. I do a Urine Challenge Test ‘cause I want to look at what’s in the tissue. A lot of times the hair— hair is a natural method of pushing heavy metals out of the body. There’s been some studies of, for instance, one study with Autistic children showing they had less heavy metals in their hair.

Evan Brand: ‘Cause they can’t get it out, and then—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: ‘Cause they can’t get it out because you actually have to have healthy detoxification to push it into the hair. So the question is if you’re detoxification’s impaired, you may not see it in the hair. And if— the hair is the indicator of what your body burden is— Well, it’s— It’s a couple steps downstream, so there could be other steps that come above it that affect it. That’s why I like the chelation challenge of the urine because y— they’re pulling out what’s in the tissue. And again, blood, it’s gonna be more acute. Like if your kid’s eating paint chips and you’re doing a blood test, you could see that Lead right in the blood. But if your kid ate paint chips like a couple months ago, the body may have taken that Lead, pushed it into the tissue, into the fat, and then now, when you test the blood, it may not come back. But a challenge may reveal it, ‘cause these metals can go into other tissues and you kind of have to agitate the tissue and pull it out.

Evan Brand: Now, are you recommending a random urine test after the provocation agent or you having like 24-hour collection after provocation?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Just a two to three-hour collection. The half-life of some of these chemical chelators, like DMPS, is a three— a three-hour half-life, so any longer than that is not necessary.

Evan Brand: ‘Cause the NDF I was telling you about, that can be used as a— as a natural provocation agent. The half-life of it is around two hours, so it sounds very, very, very close, but I would argue maybe superior. I’ll have to—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: I’ll have to uh— find that paper and— and send it to you ‘cause it’s pretty mind-blowing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Absolutely, yeah. So, if your concerned about heavy metals, look at some of the things we talked about, just the simple vectors. Number two, get a heavy metal test that can actually provoke and get a window into what’s happening tissue-burden-wise. Also, look at your organic acids because your organic acids can give you a window into a lot of your Glutathione and Sulfur amino acid and antioxidant precursors to run your Phase-1, Phase-2 or even Phase-3 detoxification pathways. The Cytochrome P450 oxidase enzyme pathways are important for detoxifying, so it’s nice to see how those pathways are doing. DO all the diet and lifestyle things. Get tested. Uhm— Don’t get your heavy metal fillings removed right away, but you go see a good biologically-trained dentist. Get your gut and your inflammation and diet better first, before you get that removed. And it depend how many you have, you may want to get kind of uh— a protocol lined up with your dentist. Maybe remove 25% at a time, or 50% at a time, depending on how many you have. Some people that have 20 or 25, you may not want to do more than five or six at a time. So you got to work that-

Evan Brand: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: -out with yoour biologically-trained dentist.

Evan Brand: Yeah, and some— Some practitioners, some dentist have protocols they may impleme— implement with (R)-lipoic acid and Alpha-Lipoic acid, and-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Evan Brand: -some other things, so just uh— We always recommend people look at the link— Let me double check the website. It’s the I-A-M-O-T—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani:  I-A-M— Yeah. International Association of Oral and Medical Toxicology dot (.) org.

Evan Brand: Yeah. So I— I’m making sure I’m typing it in right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: IAOMT.org.

Evan Brand: Yep. That’s the one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s Dr. Jack Kennedy’s site.

Evan Brand: Yeah, but there’s a whole database there, so you can look in someone [inaudible]

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Feel free you guys. Look at the uh— the video called The Smoking Tooth.  If people think or your dentist says that heavy metals stay put when they’re put in your mouth, watch that video and your mind will be blown. Oh— We’’l try to get that link put in below, so you guys don’t have to hunt it down.

Evan Brand: That video clip is in that Our Daily Dose. They show, it’s like—

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Evan Brand: It’s like 2000 times the safe amount of Mercury gets released when they drill it out-

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Totally.

Evan Brand: -wiithout any safe procedure. It’s— It’s— It’s— It should be a crime.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Insane. Hundred percent insane. But hey! Education, we start here. We vote with our dollars. Make smart decisions. And if you guys are loving this podcast, give us a thumbs up. Give us a share. We appreciate it. We get energized by your comments. We get energized by your feedback, and we’re just— We’re here to empower everyone. Then, if you want to take that next step and dig in deeper, for Evan’s help, evanbrand.com, as well as myself, justinhealth.com. Look forward to being of service. And, Evan, you have a phenomenal day. Great chatting with you.

Evan Brand: Sounds good. We’ll talk to you all next week. Buh-bye!

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Take care. Bye.



Aluminum and Silica in Drinking Water and The Risk of Alzheimer’s Disease or Cognitive Decline, An American Journal of Epidemiology 2009 15-Year Study

Trace Amounts, a documentary

http://www.ourdailydosefilm.com/  Our Daily Dose, a documentary


Dr. Layton’s “The Smoking Tooth” Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJVBYZEsqEU,